Past Posting Proven once again.....perhaps 49 combinations of one race!!

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by justindew

For there to be a violation of law, there has to be malicious intent, and that might be tough to prove in this case.

Thanks Atticus Finch.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

Thanks Atticus Finch.

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

I find it hard to believe that manipulation of betting pools is legal regardless of your legal expertise

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I find it hard to believe that manipulation of betting pools is legal regardless of your legal expertise

We aren't talking about manipulation of pools. We're talking about cancelling tickets after the race has started, which appears to be allowed because of a glitch in the system. Yes, the cancelling of tickets happens to manipulate pools, but unless it is provable that a person intended to manipulate a pool (which may not even be a crime-I'm not sure), it would be nearly impossible to charge someone with a crime.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

We aren't talking about manipulation of pools. We're talking about cancelling tickets after the race has started, which appears to be allowed because of a glitch in the system. Yes, the cancelling of tickets happens to manipulate pools, but unless it is provable that a person intended to manipulate a pool (which may not even be a crime-I'm not sure), it would be nearly impossible to charge someone with a crime.

Huh? If cancelling a ticket is pool manipulation then how hard would it be to prove intent? "I pushed the button by mistake" defense? Wouldnt fraud be a possible crime?

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Huh? If cancelling a ticket is pool manipulation then how hard would it be to prove intent? "I pushed the button by mistake" defense? Wouldnt fraud be a possible crime?

But cancelling a ticket is legal. Even if there was a law that said cancelling a ticket after the race started was illegal, you would still have to prove the bettor intended to break the law and knew the race had started. The bettor could always say "Hey, I made the wrong bet, told the clerk, and he cancelled it. I didn't know the race had started." Now, if cancelling a ticket after the race started required some extensive computer work like hacking some computer program, that's another story.

And there's always the possibility that the bettor is an idiot and decides to tell a bunch of people what he and the mutuel clerk are doing.

[fpsoxfan]

I'd be very surprised if these cancellations aren't part of a dirty scheme between the tracks and big bettors. As has been said many times before when this topic has come up, it seems that this day and age they should be able to come up with a system to shut down all betting the exact second that gate opens. Until then, we can argue all we want about this but it's not going to change a single thing. If it bothers people so much, then don't wager.

[Riot]

So ... I make a wager three minutes to post at the track - I somehow keep a window and teller clear of other patrons trying to bet that race and other races when my race goes off, so I have a teller at my beck and call - in three seconds ... one-onethousand, two-onethousand, three-onethousand .... I :

- watch the gate open
- watch my horse go off
- decide if the break was good or bad enough for my horse
- turn to the clerk and say, "Cancel this bet!" and hand my ticket back
- the bet gets entered and canceled

All of the above three seconds? I don't think so.

Alternative? Cancel a bet from an ADW? Nope. From a betting machine at the track? Nope.

So, the bettor and the teller must have been in cahoots together, with the ticket literally sitting in the machine, the teller's hand poised over the "cancel" button ... and as the "cancel" came through - was finished - three seconds after the break, the decision to cancel must have been made between break and 2 seconds.

Sure. Someone got one hell of an advantage there.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by justindew

Sorry for making a relevant point that no one had considered and which would explain why prosecuting people who cancel after the bell is a practical impossibility.

Don't apologize.

If you in fact are a lawyer or law enforcement, I apologize for my flippant comment and await your next opinion regarding this matter with bated breath.

[SniperSB23]

Would any money actually be lost by closing wagering as soon as the first horse is loaded into the gate? Once everyone was used to it wouldn't they just place their bets 30 seconds early and handle would be just the same? Sure you'd have people not getting their bets in on time and blaming the new system but in reality those would be the same people that wind up not getting their bets in on time as it is. And if you are 5 seconds late closing the pools sometime then they would still be loading horses when the pool closes so you wouldn't gain a significant advantage.