3/8 (3yo): Gotham; La Derby; El Camino Real

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

That's like me saying Statesman would beat the same group from last Sunday every time because he was far back.

You won by a nose and were extremely lucky in doing so.

So, are you saying that Visionaire wasn't the best horse in the field?

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

So, are you saying that Visionaire wasn't the best horse in the field?

I don't give a crap about best horse. The race was given to Texas Wildcatter on a platter and Arroyo blew it by moving him 3 wide around the turn.

The track conditions, early pace, everything setup for this horse and he got caught by the logical closer in the race.

Oh and Visionaire was last because he's a slow horse and the fractions were real fast. This horse ran the race of his life.

[Danzig]

surprised visionaire got up at the end, couldn't really tell much of anything on hrtv....about half of the race was like looking into a cloudy sky.
but glad V got up, as he is in my RTTR stable.

but with the conditions at AQU today, i don't know that you can really get anything from the performances, other than visionaire and texas wildcat can handle slop.

[blackthroatedwind]

Visionaire benefited from a terrific ride and the second horse, who was obviously best, got a boneheaded ride. Pretty much anytime you see every horse near the lead collapse, but one, and a horse win from far back, the one speed who stuck it out ran a better race. That's pretty much common sense.

It's hard to glean anything from the race because of the atrocious track conditions. Obviously Saratoga Russell is distance challenged, but that seemed likely going in, and Giant Moon clearly didn't handle the track at all, but other than that it was probably a pretty mediocre bunch and two horses ran OK. The first two finishers will both need to be better dry track horses to do anything of meaning going forward.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Visionaire ran the race of his life?...he has always ran similar or better races than this. I don't think that this was his best race. Sure, it might be his highest beyer, but it won't be his best race. You don't run your best races on the wrong lead when the horse is normally correct down the stretch. His Risen Star has been his best race so far IMO. You're talking about a horse that beat Elysium fields last year. Elysium Fields is no joke, and neither is this little horse. Horses like him are very useful in races like these because they don't get bet nearly as much as they should just because of beyers. He was much better than these horses going in, and he proved it. He was even on his wrong lead coming down the stretch and still got up.

Him being a "slow horse" really doesn't make since when you take his last race into account when he was close to the pace, albeit a much slower pace.
He was taken out of his game in that race too, and still finished only 2 lengths behind Pyro.

Why play a horse with tactical speed in a race full of speed against a closer that is much better than these in the first place? It wasn't as if Visionaire didn't go off at a nice price, and normally Visionaire isn't quite so far back as he was today.

I also don't think that Visionaire runs as good in the slop as he does on the dirt. It didn't look like he was running as hard in this race as in the Risen Star towards the end when I could actually see him. Still going to have to improve a bit before he makes it into the top tier of 3 yolds as well.

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Visionaire ran the race of his life?...he has always ran similar or better races than this. I don't think that this was his best race. Sure, it might be his highest beyer, but it won't be his best race. You don't run your best races on the wrong lead when the horse is normally correct down the stretch. His Risen Star has been his best race so far IMO. You're talking about a horse that beat Elysium fields last year. Elysium Fields is no joke, and neither is this little horse. Horses like him are very useful in races like these because they don't get bet nearly as much as they should just because of beyers. He was much better than these horses going in, and he proved it. He was even on his wrong lead coming down the stretch and still got up.

Him being a "slow horse" really doesn't make since when you take his last race into account when he was close to the pace, albeit a much slower pace.
He was taken out of his game in that race too, and still finished only 2 lengths behind Pyro.

Why play a horse with tactical speed in a race full of speed against a closer that is much better than these in the first place? It wasn't as if Visionaire didn't go off at a nice price, and normally Visionaire isn't quite so far back as he was today.

Fine. He's an unbelievable horse. Now shut up.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Fine. He's an unbelievable horse. Now shut up.

He's not unbelievable, but he's better than most of the 3 y olds out there. Going to have to improve some before he is in the top tier.

[golfer]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Visionaire benefited from a terrific ride and the second horse, who was obviously best, got a boneheaded ride. Pretty much anytime you see every horse near the lead collapse, but one, and a horse win from far back, the one speed who stuck it out ran a better race. That's pretty much common sense.

It's hard to glean anything from the race because of the atrocious track conditions. Obviously Saratoga Russell is distance challenged, but that seemed likely going in, and Giant Moon clearly didn't handle the track at all, but other than that it was probably a pretty mediocre bunch and two horses ran OK. The first two finishers will both need to be better dry track horses to do anything of meaning going forward.

Funny story at the simulcast center. A couple of kids sit down at the table next to mine, as the Gotham comes up one says to me to bet the 10 horse, Visionaire, because he got a tip from his brother who is part owner. Well, the race starts, and Visionaire breaks last, then they disappear into the fog. The kid is furious, he calls his brother, and says something to the effect of, if you ever have another horse running, DON'T tell me about it, this horse is friggin dead last!!! Anyway, as you all know, they reappear down the stretch, he can't believe that it is the 10 horse closing....The kid is absolutely thrilled, he had a $10 win bet on the horse. Lesson learned, don't make phone calls during the race!