Z Humor in the Fountain of Youth

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

How could Z Humor's effort be described as bad in the Sam Davis at Tampa? This horse never lifted a foot on that track at Tampa, and there is no way that Mott runs this guy back for the Tampa Derby. Tampa is a funny track and some really love it or don't at all. He expended no energy last week and ran slower then he would run in a listed workout. Mott makes the right decision running him back at GP and this horse has the speed to be right there at the end. I hope they run cause his odds will be inflated off his last debacle at TBD. Here's hoping this derby prep produces some interesting options for races to come.

He was fighting hard on the pace the entire way and led as the field turned for home. How can this possibly be construed as " never lifting a hoof? "

As for the second highlighted part.....if you don't think the owner of Z Humor forced Mott to enter the horse then I have a number of bridges I would like to sell you.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by monipenny

If I imply that it was Mott's decision then that IS probably wrong, but why not run back in this race if the intentions are not to run back in the Tampa Derby? I believe the plans were scraped when Z Humor didn't run well at TBD, and Zayat said screw it and altered plans. This certainly does not have to be the case but I would bet that he's in the starting gate on Sunday for the Fountain of Youth. Cornelio has a good starting position with post #5, and his speed plays nicely for these 1 1/8 races at GP. I certainly don't know if he's the goods, but im willing to take the price for what he will be on Sunday.

Why not? Because bringing back a horse that tires badly on the lead in one week unplanned is just begging for an injury not to mention another poor performance. The horse has the earnings to get in the Derby if that is the goal. There are countless other spots they could send him besides the Tampa Bay Derby. There is absolutely no way that Mott wants to run him here.

[Danzig]

didn't mott just get some former baffert horses from zayat?
trainers don't become top trainers by telling owners with huge pocketbooks to 'f off'. i doubt that mott is concerned that running back in a week will be a health issue for the horse.
now as to whether it'll be an embarrassment issue is another story. it's no skin off motts nose if z humor runs a clunker-and it wasn't HIS idea to run, but the owners.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?

I think you are missing the point that he has enough earnings to get into the derby. He does not have to ship to run in a prep race, he can run in any allowance race on the grounds to stay fit.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I agree there are other spots to run him. Most notably would be the derby preps at Oaklawn like the Rebel and then Arkansas Derby, but the FOY came up in his own backyard and you don't have to ship out of state. You certainly will never persuade me that this horse is worse for the wear by running this weekend by what transpired last weekend. Mott has lost clients before when he told clients to F off- he doesn't need the money that badly- he got a ton from Paulson when Cigar was retired and also fringe breeding rights to Theatrical. Shakespeare was a horse that Mott trained that bowed who had tremendous potential and accomplished some great things but he lost the horse and KM got him only to break down a few races later. Ahmad Zayat is not the only owner in this game ya know?

No Zayat isn't the only owner but Bill won't tell him to F-off for this reason:

Zayat has approx 40 horses with Mott (about 25% of his whole stable)....At a volume discount of 80 bucks a day training fees that's $96,000/month coming in or close 1.2 million a year.

Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY.

Cigar hasn't raced in almost a dozen years and the Theatrical money is ancillary.

So I respectfully disagree that Bill would send Ahmad packing with the economics described above.

[Travis Stone]

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Has the horse scratched yet? It's odd more hasn't been authored about him in the presses, as if they know its coming.

I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would guess that more isn't in the press because, first of all, well you know, but mostly because Mott will take the heat as that's his job. That's what trainers have to do. He's never going to say " we're only running because the owner is making me against my wishes. "

Absolutely. I'm 110% speculating on this one. The whole situation is crazy really. I might eat crow on this, but to me this is like "How not to win the Derby 101."

[ELA]

Originally Posted by asudevil

No Zayat isn't the only owner but Bill won't tell him to F-off for this reason:

Zayat has approx 40 horses with Mott (about 25% of his whole stable)....At a volume discount of 80 bucks a day training fees that's $96,000/month coming in or close 1.2 million a year.

Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY.

Cigar hasn't raced in almost a dozen years and the Theatrical money is ancillary.

So I respectfully disagree that Bill would send Ahmad packing with the economics described above.

Is that what Mott gets now -- $80 a day with the volume discount? How many do you have to have in the barn to get the volume discount?

Anyway, that's really big money. I wonder how much Mott is making on the $80 a day.

Eric

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by ELA

Is that what Mott gets now -- $80 a day with the volume discount? How many do you have to have in the barn to get the volume discount?

Anyway, that's really big money. I wonder how much Mott is making on the $80 a day.

Eric

He's a 115/day if you have under 10 horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I have to respectfully disagree that Bill DOES NOT have a large payroll to pay for staff in KY. Where have you been man? Mott hasn't run shhhit in KY for almost ten years, and most if not all the stock running in KY is strictly second tier horses'. His best have been running almost strictly in NY and FL.

Just because they are second tier horses doesn't mean he doesn't have a pretty serious payroll. Or, perhaps you think people only get paid if the horses are top quality.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

No he doesn't have a serious payroll compared to what he pays at FL and NY tracks. The number of horses' stabled at CD pales in comparison to what he has at NY in that same time of year. His operation is very small in KY compared to elsewhere, and he mostly keeps horses' in KY to keep up with appearances.

OK, fine, and the person you chose to argue with said he had a large payroll with staff in FL, KY and NY. He didn't say a large payroll in NY....a large payroll in FL.....and a large payroll in KY. He was simply pointing out his enormous overhead, a fact, and the nature of doing business. Frankly, I think he has a better handle on the overall situation involving trainers and owners than you seem to realize.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by monipenny

Ok Andy, tell me what you really think. I can't have a opinion on something without you having to correct me. If you can make it a FACT that the horses' and payroll he has in KY is more then NY you are right and i'm wrong. But we both know that you never admit to being wrong. Just because you are on some radio show and know Nick Zito does not make you a expert on everything bud!!! I'm simply stating fact that Mott has a lot fewer horses' in KY and his payroll is not nearly as expensive compared with NY.

This is so sad but I will mark it down to yet another poster posting under the influence.

Here's an idea.......improve your reading comprehension before you take any more idiotic cheap shots at me.

[Danzig]

"Bill has a large payroll with staff in NY, FL, and KY."


how does that sentence suddenly mean that mott has a large staff in ky?


he has a large payroll WITH staff IN ny, fl, and ky.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by monipenny

I have to respectfully disagree that Bill DOES NOT have a large payroll to pay for staff in KY. Where have you been man? Mott hasn't run shhhit in KY for almost ten years, and most if not all the stock running in KY is strictly second tier horses'. His best have been running almost strictly in NY and FL.

Wrong Sir/Madam...Wrong!!

Mott has at least 20 Claiborne horses in KY alone.....He uses KY as a midwest base and ships in and out of there to Arlington, Fairgrounds, Keeneland, and Turfway.....Please don't try to come on the board with opinions that you misrepresent as facts.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by asudevil

Wrong Sir/Madam...Wrong!!

Mott has at least 20 Claiborne horses in KY alone.....He uses KY as a midwest base and ships in and out of there to Arlington, Fairgrounds, Keeneland, and Turfway.....Please don't try to come on the board with opinions that you misrepresent as facts.

I dont think Mott trains for Claiborne anymore

[SniperSB23]

He ran 4th, not bad all things considered.