2/18 (OP) Southwest Stakes

[philcski]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Exactly. It's only logical that the Arkansas Derby should be on equal standing with the TC races.

How about on equal footing with the Wood Memorial at least?

Let's run through the list of winners since '04... Tapit, Bellamy Road, Bob and John, Nobiz... a combined ZERO TC board finishes and a grand total of what, 1 dirt win after that?

Arkansas Derby in the same stretch... Smarty Jones (2 TC victories and a 2nd), Afleet Alex (2 TC victories and a 3rd), Lawyer Ron (no TC success but several graded stakes victories since), Curlin (1 TC victory, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, a JCGC, BCC, and HOY)

I think that says enough.

Keep in mind, KG, this coming from a hardcore New Yorker.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by philcski

How about on equal footing with the Wood Memorial at least?

Let's run through the list of winners since '04... Tapit, Bellamy Road, Bob and John, Nobiz... a combined ZERO TC board finishes and a grand total of what, 1 dirt win after that?

Arkansas Derby in the same stretch... Smarty Jones (2 TC victories and a 2nd), Afleet Alex (2 TC victories and a 3rd), Lawyer Ron (no TC success but several graded stakes victories since), Curlin (1 TC victory, 1 2nd, 1 3rd, a JCGC, BCC, and HOY)

I think that says enough.

Keep in mind, KG, this coming from a hardcore New Yorker.

1000% agree that it deserves to be on equal footing with the Wood. Same with the Florida Derby, Blue Grass, and SA Derby. My issue is more with any of them being grade ones in the first place. I don't feel like preps should be on equal footing with the main event, rating wise.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1000% agree that it deserves to be on equal footing with the Wood. Same with the Florida Derby, Blue Grass, and SA Derby. My issue is more with any of them being grade ones in the first place. I don't feel like preps should be on equal footing with the main event, rating wise.

altho others are grade ones, only the derby, preakness and belmont are referred to as 'the classics'. everyone knows winning the gr 1 fla derby is not on par with winning one of the gr 1 classics.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

altho others are grade ones, only the derby, preakness and belmont are referred to as 'the classics'. everyone knows winning the gr 1 fla derby is not on par with winning one of the gr 1 classics.

If everyone knows it, then it shouldn't be the same grade. IMO, the only grade one races for 3yo's should be the TC races, the Haskell, the Travers, the Super Derby, the King's Bishop, and the Secretariat.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

IMO, the only grade one races for 3yo's should be the TC races, the Haskell, the Travers, the Super Derby, the King's Bishop, and the Secretariat.

I obviously am extremely biased in this case, however, I don't think the Super Derby is quite ready to return to grade one status. Early this decade the race had a few runnings that hurt its points, but lately, we've done okay:

- Lawyer Ron (Second in '06... lots of points)
- Grasshopper (Mineshaft winner... lots of potential)

If we get a good chunk of points out of Grasshopper this year, the race is in much better shape.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

I obviously am extremely biased in this case, however, I don't think the Super Derby is quite ready to return to grade one status. Early this decade the race had a few runnings that hurt its points, but lately, we've done okay:

- Lawyer Ron (Second in '06... lots of points)
- Grasshopper (Mineshaft winner... lots of potential)

If we get a good chunk of points out of Grasshopper this year, the race is in much better shape.

If you base it on it's recent runnings, no, it shouldn't be a grade one. But I look at it in a different sense. The reason I would make it grade one is in the hopes that it can become that type of race. After the TC, it would be nice to have a set path for the 3yo's to aim to. The Haskell is the first logical big one, coming just about two months after the Belmont. The Travers is obviously next in the sequence. From the Travers to the Super Derby, the timing is perfect and also gives them enough time to be ready for the BC. If I were in charge, I'd make it a grade one and separate it from races like the Penn Derby, WV Derby, etc. I'd try to keep a clear top tier of races for the top horses instead of giving them so many equal options to chose from that it keeps them from facing each other.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If you base it on it's recent runnings, no, it shouldn't be a grade one. But I look at it in a different sense. The reason I would make it grade one is in the hopes that it can become that type of race. After the TC, it would be nice to have a set path for the 3yo's to aim to. The Haskell is the first logical big one, coming just about two months after the Belmont. The Travers is obviously next in the sequence. From the Travers to the Super Derby, the timing is perfect and also gives them enough time to be ready for the BC. If I were in charge, I'd make it a grade one and separate it from races like the Penn Derby, WV Derby, etc. I'd try to keep a clear top tier of races for the top horses instead of giving them so many equal options to chose from that it keeps them from facing each other.

Your idea would be great for the fans as we'd have far less G1 winners going into the Triple Crown and those that suffer minor injuries during the TC are less likely to be retired without being a G1 winner. Unfortunately what would be great news for fans is terrible news for the breeders who can't stand those horses as G1 winners and we all know who holds sway with the Graded Stakes Committee.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If everyone knows it, then it shouldn't be the same grade. IMO, the only grade one races for 3yo's should be the TC races, the Haskell, the Travers, the Super Derby, the King's Bishop, and the Secretariat.

there are plenty of races that aren't on par with others in the same grade, whether a 1,2 or 3.
but if the fla derby can be a gr 1, then the ark derby should be as well, especially considering the type of horses who have been running there the last few years. certainly has left more of a mark recently then the bluegrass.

Why not just go with size of the purse? Presumably the bigger purses should attract the best horses and presumably the best horses would win the biggest pots...

THey had this problem in chess, and finally they asked Kasparov "isnt the tournament with the most money the most important one?" "Yeah, basically that's it.." something like that.

Bad analogy. I know, but there's a pt in there..

[Mortimer]

Oh?