Denis of Cork <96 BSF>

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The 2004 Southwest was run in 2004. The 2008 edition was just run a few days ago. I'm not sure at all what one has to do with the other? Did they run the same opening fractions? Did they run against the same kind of competition? Were the riders of both asking them the same question down the lane? Also, whether or not Smarty ran it in 26 1/5 or 35 1/5 is beside the point. All that you are point out is that both of them finished in slow time. Smarty's time doesn't make Dennis' fast.

Smarty got a 95 Beyer and Denis a 96. Smarty's time was a hair quicker so the track was actually a little faster that day if at all different. Check out the closing fractions of every Southwest. They are all slower than that. Lawyer Ron finished in 26 2/5. Using the closing fractions at Oaklawn as if they are conventional fractions is pointless when, as Steve pointed out, the stretch is uphill.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Smarty got a 95 Beyer and Denis a 96. Smarty's time was a hair quicker so the track was actually a little faster that day if at all different. Check out the closing fractions of every Southwest. They are all slower than that. Lawyer Ron finished in 26 2/5. Using the closing fractions at Oaklawn as if they are conventional fractions is pointless when, as Steve pointed out, the stretch is uphill.

I agree. I wasn't using the closing fractions to say that he was slow coming home. I was using my eyes. It wouldn't matter to me if the closing fraction was 21 1/5. If I see horses laboring, that's what I'm going to remember, not the fraction.

Also, I'm not sure that this is correct about the Oaklawn stretch and it's come home times. Afleet Alex ran his final 8th of the Arkansas Derby in 11 4/5. Curlin ran his in 12 flat. I don't remember what Smarty's was in the Rebel but it was something crazy fast too. There is no way I believe Alex ran 11 4/5 going uphill. I've always been of the belief that the opposite may be true; that it's slightly downhill which leads to those really fast closing fractions being a little misleading.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I agree. I wasn't using the closing fractions to say that he was slow coming home. I was using my eyes. It wouldn't matter to me if the closing fraction was 21 1/5. If I see horses laboring, that's what I'm going to remember, not the fraction.

Also, I'm not sure that this is correct about the Oaklawn stretch and it's come home times. Afleet Alex ran his final 8th of the Arkansas Derby in 11 4/5. Curlin ran his in 12 flat. I don't remember what Smarty's was in the Rebel but it was something crazy fast too. There is no way I believe Alex ran 11 4/5 going uphill. I've always been of the belief that the opposite may be true; that it's slightly downhill which leads to those really fast closing fractions being a little misleading.

I'm not entirely sure what the deal is there but there is certainly a quirk in the closing fractions of the Southwest over the past several years. The Rebel and Arkansas fractions seem more reasonable so I'm not sure what exactly is going on but I know finishing the Southwest in 25 is actually a good finishing time.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I'm not entirely sure what the deal is there but there is certainly a quirk in the closing fractions of the Southwest over the past several years. The Rebel and Arkansas fractions seem more reasonable so I'm not sure what exactly is going on but I know finishing the Southwest in 25 is actually a good finishing time.

That's why I say go with your eyes. If your eyes tell you it was slow, don't let them telling you it was 22 1/5 tell you othewise. By the same token, if your eyes tell it was fast, don't let them telling you it was 27 4/5 tell you otherwise. To be honest, I hadn't any idea what the closing time of the race was. I just know that they looked like they were crawling and Dennis appeared to be the only one running and he wasn't even going fast.