Rags!!!!!!!!!!!!

somerfrost · #1 06-09-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How in the world can you compare a Hungarian filly who raced in the 1800's to modern horses? It is not an opinion thing but a relevance thing.

Obviously we disagree...!

Cannon Shell · #2 06-09-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Obviously we disagree...!

Ever see her run? Ever see a chart of one of her races? Ever talk to someone that saw her in person? It is like comparing real things to a ghost.

philcski · #3 06-09-2007, 08:46 PM

I've seen it all after watching the replay...

Pletcher showed some emotion and excitement!

somerfrost · #4 06-09-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ever see her run? Ever see a chart of one of her races? Ever talk to someone that saw her in person? It is like comparing real things to a ghost.

Look, I've studied racing history as a hobby for 30 years, I know more about Kincsem than most folks know about Secretariat...you are entitled to your opinion but I see no reason to belittle mine. the horse was 54-54 racing males all over Europe and carried up to 168 pounds, say what you will...I believe she was the best!

Merlinsky · #5 06-09-2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Look, I've studied racing history as a hobby for 30 years, I know more about Kincsem than most folks know about Secretariat...you are entitled to your opinion but I see no reason to belittle mine. the horse was 54-54 racing males all over Europe and carried up to 168 pounds, say what you will...I believe she was the best!

Yeah but who'd she beat?... (ducks tomatoes) Kidding! Just teasing Somer. You know I know your fandom of Kincsem from way back. Anybody done a writeup on her? Her achievements merit more attention.

somerfrost · #6 06-09-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Yeah but who'd she beat?... (ducks tomatoes) Kidding! Just teasing Somer. You know I know your fandom of Kincsem from way back. Anybody done a writeup on her? Her achievements merit more attention.

Chris (SCC) and I did several write-ups on her. There are books written about her and a race track named after her!
http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com...es/kincsem.htm

miraja2 · #7 06-09-2007, 09:19 PM

What she did today was quite impressive, and she deserves to be praised for it. It was an exciting race and she performed very well.
Although I doubted this filly a bit before the Oaks, I have liked her ever sense her performance that day so I am BEGGING people on here to avoid saying things like "she beat a freak in Curlin" and that she is better than any filly other than Kincsem and Ruffian. Don't make me start rooting against this filly because of the nonsensical over-hype (see Bernardini last year).
She is a very good filly, and MAYBE someday she will rank among the all-time greats. But if Curlin is a freak, our definition of a "freak" has changed dramatically. And how in the world could she rank higher than someone like (to name just one example) Personal Ensign? Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 lifetime, including 8 G1s over three years, AND beat the boys in the Whitney.
Any ranking of all-time great fillies that had Rags over Personal Ensign right now would be.....well.....just plain wrong.

#8 06-09-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

What she did today was quite impressive, and she deserves to be praised for it. It was an exciting race and she performed very well.
Although I doubted this filly a bit before the Oaks, I have liked her ever sense her performance that day so I am BEGGING people on here to avoid saying things like "she beat a freak in Curlin" and that she is better than any filly other than Kincsem and Ruffian. Don't make me start rooting against this filly because of the nonsensical over-hype (see Bernardini last year).
She is a very good filly, and MAYBE someday she will rank among the all-time greats. But if Curlin is a freak, our definition of a "freak" has changed dramatically. And how in the world could she rank higher than someone like (to name just one example) Personal Ensign? Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 lifetime, including 8 G1s over three years, AND beat the boys in the Whitney.
Any ranking of all-time great fillies that had Rags over Personal Ensign right now would be.....well.....just plain wrong.

Post race excitement and the fact a filly won the Belmont. When people see they walked the first half of the race, it will die down. But it was a hell of a competitive race. The 3 TC races this year were a joy to watch. This was a good year. And it was a great race even if it was not a race to put any sane person in physical awe of these horses. The stamina was nice to see though. In fact, I think they may have run Jazil fractions. I leave that for somebody to determine.

somerfrost · #9 06-09-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

What she did today was quite impressive, and she deserves to be praised for it. It was an exciting race and she performed very well.
Although I doubted this filly a bit before the Oaks, I have liked her ever sense her performance that day so I am BEGGING people on here to avoid saying things like "she beat a freak in Curlin" and that she is better than any filly other than Kincsem and Ruffian. Don't make me start rooting against this filly because of the nonsensical over-hype (see Bernardini last year).
She is a very good filly, and MAYBE someday she will rank among the all-time greats. But if Curlin is a freak, our definition of a "freak" has changed dramatically. And how in the world could she rank higher than someone like (to name just one example) Personal Ensign? Personal Ensign was 13 for 13 lifetime, including 8 G1s over three years, AND beat the boys in the Whitney.
Any ranking of all-time great fillies that had Rags over Personal Ensign right now would be.....well.....just plain wrong.

I agree totally...all I've said is that right now she seems to have unlimited potential...how that plays out only time will tell. Personal Ensign's BCD was one of the great efforts of all time, I love that horse!

Merlinsky · #10 06-09-2007, 09:47 PM

What would she have to achieve to warrant Classic vs. Distaff then? A mile and a quarter in a field that includes Curlin at the shorter distance, Street Sense, Invasor and others is a different animal. Do we need her to hit up the Travers for example? I assume a shorter race against males would be in order...any way they'd even think of doing the CCA Oaks and Alabama and still the Classic? I'm torn, those are pretty big races and I'd hate for her to miss them...what's her dream schedule in your eyes?

Danzig · #11 06-09-2007, 11:51 PM

photo of rags' break:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/appho...hotoId=1597337

_ed_ · #12 06-10-2007, 06:16 AM

That was a wonderful race. I was sitting down in front of the TV but as they turned for home I stood up for no apparent reason.

One of the most exciting races I've seen in a long time. If you were able to close your jaw in the 1-2 minutes after that race, I don't think you're a racing fan.

Cannon Shell · #13 06-09-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Look, I've studied racing history as a hobby for 30 years, I know more about Kincsem than most folks know about Secretariat...you are entitled to your opinion but I see no reason to belittle mine. the horse was 54-54 racing males all over Europe and carried up to 168 pounds, say what you will...I believe she was the best!

I have no doubt that all that is true but it is like apples and oranges. Maybe her trainer was the Hungarian juice trainer of the day?

somerfrost · #14 06-09-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have no doubt that all that is true but it is like apples and oranges. Maybe her trainer was the Hungarian juice trainer of the day?

Yeah, raced carrying 168 pounds over 12 furlongs and won easily...Scott Lake doesn't have juice that good even today!

#15 06-09-2007, 08:52 PM

Mr. Damper man now appears.

Folks, that was a hell of an exciting race but it was run like a Euro turf race. 6f in 1:15 1/5 ... The stretch was incredible and I thought Curlin did a great job of fighting back and our filly put it right back in his face. This race was a great competition. But it was not a fantastic physical feat. Its very clear both of these horses can run all day long and when the first part of the race is walked through...

It was a great race for horseracing sake though. And if these two happen too meet again against Invasor in the BCC after they have improved even more, joining Street Sense, then we will have seen heaven. I would also like to see how Papi Chullo progresses after today and a new crew. That was a great run today.