Kevin Durant: the comparisons

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I would have bet Byron Scott based on your tickets, but I got the feeling I am very wrong.

VERY wrong indeed.

And the correct answer is...
I value opinions.

[Samarta]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Was not a strong point. He was tremendously skilled and had rare instincts but I would not label him as athletic as it pertains to NBA players.

Now I think the problem is what you consider athletic. Here is a guy (Bird) that depending on who you talk to is one of the top 5 players ever to bounce a ball and he is not athletic????? If that were the case, you would have to call Magic just as non athletic as Bird. Who by the way would also probably be in that top 5 according to most....No one gets to be where those guys once were without being a superior athlete. Your analogy is waaaay off imo...

[King Glorious]

First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest. Now that that's settled, on to Durant.

I love the guy's game. In college. In college, he's got all of the skills he needs. I am not sure how it can be said that he's not athletic. I see a very nice athlete. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete. The thing I like about him is that he's very polished and poised offensively. He takes exactly what the defense gives him. He has the ability to go into the post and score even though I don't really think he has much of a post game. He's got the perfect game for college.

When he gets to the NBA, he's going to find the going a whole lot tougher. He's going to be able to score 20 a game simply because of his skills and size. He is a mismatch for most people because of his size and skills, sort of like Garnett and Dirk in that regard. But I think he's going to have problems in trying to become a dominant offensive player. I don't see him with a signature move at this point. In the pros, he won't be able to hold a position on the block because he's not big enough. Will he add size? Maybe. If he does, will it take away from his effectiveness on the perimeter? Maybe. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player. Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them. That's what separates the true superstars. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game. I haven't seen that ability yet from Durant. The more I watch him play, the less I'm impressed with him. As I said, he'll be a valuable addition to a team. He'll score points. But he won't be able to dominate like he has in college. The player I am most reminded of when I watch him........Bob McAdoo. The current players that I would compare him to are probably Loul Deng, Antawn Jamison, and Tim Thomas.

[Seattleallstar]

I was once compared to John Stockton, only im a much better shooter and I have a killer crossover.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1. First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest.

2. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete.

3. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player.
4.Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them.

5. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them.

6. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game.

1. Wrong. No. Nein. Nyet. But close.
2. Give us your evidence upon observation.
3. He wont beat them with quickness, he will back them down.
4. You are saying McGrady is a good defensive player and Lebron... holy ***
5. A huge misunderstanding of the rule differences between the pros and college. DEFENSIVE 3 seconds in the pros makes it much more difficult to guard good offensive players. This prevents a true zone from being played like in college. This is why a lot of good offensive players in college, like Wade, become great offensive players in the Pros.
6. And this is the major problem with all of these guys except Wade and James (both still learning). They can do anything offensively at any time, so their teammates watch them. This is exactly why guys like Nash, Bird, Kidd, etc... make much better team players. They know how to involve other teammates. Iverson and Carmello... what a great combo. Look how well they have done. And this, in the end, is what will end their careers earlier than players that rely and baskeball knowhow instead of pure athletic ability. Pure athletic ability goes downhill, basketball saavy gets better. Look how long Stockton lasted at PG... you think Iverson will play as many games as Stockton... no way. Who is the better athlete Stockton or Iverson.

Case closed.

Cannon your cousin? I will take a PM. You got me interested.

[King Glorious]

There is no way that any of us can give evidence of who's a better athlete. It's mostly a subjective opinion based on what we see.

I don't think he's going to be backing people down. Most of them are stronger than he is. Have u seen LeBron James? It's a lot easier said than done. But when u are primarily a perimeter player, u can't just adjust your game like that. People said the same thing would happen with Dirk against Bowen. But Bowen does a very effective job against him. Dirk can post but it's not his primary game. Same with Durant.

I didn't say that James and McGrady were great defensive players. I said those are the types of guys that will be guarding him. They are big enough to keep him off of the blocks and they are quick enough to stay with him on the perimeter. Durant is not like a Garnett, who has the ability, if guarded by a smaller player, to take them down inside. I just haven't seen that from Durant.

I don't think I ever made the argument that better athletes are better players. I would never make that argument. I think John Stockton was the best point guard I've ever seen play and I know he wasn't the best athlete out there.

[Seattleallstar]

im sad to see that Mark Price isnt in the conversation. Probably the most underrated superstar in the history of basketball

Originally Posted by King Glorious

1. There is no way that any of us can give evidence of who's a better athlete. It's mostly a subjective opinion based on what we see.

2. I didn't say that James and McGrady were great defensive players. I said those are the types of guys that will be guarding him. They are big enough to keep him off of the blocks and they are quick enough to stay with him on the perimeter.
3. I don't think I ever made the argument that better athletes are better players. I would never make that argument. I think John Stockton was the best point guard I've ever seen play and I know he wasn't the best athlete out there.

1. so what have you seen? thats what I asked in the first place.
2. McGrady and Lebron would have to work to much on defense. Thats why they usually cover lesser offensive players on opposing teams. It also keeps them out of fould trouble. So I dont think they would cover a guy who will most likely keep progressing offensively like Durant probably will in the Pros
3. You listed them as super stars. I took that to mean best players. May have been my mistake.

Mark Price was good, but not for very long Seattle. Got hurt. And after that he was very average.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Dirk is most likely the MVP of the NBA (I think Nash may have been out too much). You are comparing an 18 year old to a mature pro? No earthly way he is as athletic as Dirk, no flippin way. He might be in 3 years. This is not Lebron James or Carmello Anthony body wise. These guys are absolute horses athletically, Durant is a basketball player. That is what he is. Not a tight end.

Durant is playing against vastly inferior players. He is not a good passer, he will get better. What sets him apart is his variety of moves offensively. And his incredibly long arms. What I want is more muscle. I want better defense. He will get crushed with that body in the pros. It will all come along because he is a player. He knows the game, he has that knack. Just a little more beef and he will be fine.

Rick Barnes kill him? Just wait till he goes 82 games and maybe playoffs, playing 3 times a week traveling constantly, then we will see what killing means. DJ Augustin plays the whole game at point guard, he is the one you should feel sorry for.

Keep em coming. I can type extensively about this kid. I have watched almost all of his games. Villanova did the best job of shutting him down this year. But that was early. Durant continues to advance. His game gets better. Barnes is the best coach he could have had. He has the guts to mold the team to showcase Durant. And I guarantee Durant, all his family and past coaches know this. He is playing with a Point Guard that will also be a good pro, just not next year. Durant could not have landed on a better team for him.
BTW I went to the University of Texas starting in 1978. I have watched Texas basketball for a long time. Rick Barnes is the best coach UT has ever had hands down. I just dont particularly like picking up players for one year. It reminds me off the horses, wisk them off the the shed, in this case, to the pros. Makes it harder to really consider them a part of the school. My little thing. Id rather just let them go pro.

You make me wonder if you have seen Dirk. Durant is head and sholders superior athleticaly. Im a very strong Dirk fan but this is very obvious. Dirka weak point is athletic ability. Im not sure what position will be Durants strongest. He has th skills for all 5 and could cause match up nightmares at any of them. He has shortcommings that could be exploited at all of them too.Even with his scoring potential the one could be his potential strongest position. Shades of Majic , just bigger and probably quicker. King got it right Barbosa is the fastest with Jet Terry chalanging for pure speed but harris is Quicker moving with the ball.

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

There is no way that any of us can give evidence of who's a better athlete. It's mostly a subjective opinion based on what we see.

You don't have to be a great athletically to be a great NBA player. Likewise, some of the most athletically gifted people in the world aren't nearly good enough to play a professional sport. I don't believe athleticism is subjective at all. Line two people up and run them through tests similar to the NFL combine. You'll easily find out who is more athletic. Dirk does move well for a 7 footer but he isn't as athletic as Durant. Throw me some names out guys of college freshman who were better than Durant is.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by ManilaRose

You don't have to be a great athletically to be a great NBA player. Likewise, some of the most athletically gifted people in the world aren't nearly good enough to play a professional sport. I don't believe athleticism is subjective at all. Line two people up and run them through tests similar to the NFL combine. You'll easily find out who is more athletic. Dirk does move well for a 7 footer but he isn't as athletic as Durant. Throw me some names out guys of college freshman who were better than Durant is.

The NFL combine...the biggest pile of crap on the planet...Mike Mamula anyone???

Originally Posted by jpops757

You make me wonder if you have seen Dirk. Durant is head and sholders superior athleticaly. Im a very strong Dirk fan but this is very obvious. Dirka weak point is athletic ability. Im not sure what position will be Durants strongest. He has th skills for all 5 and could cause match up nightmares at any of them. He has shortcommings that could be exploited at all of them too.Even with his scoring potential the one could be his potential strongest position. Shades of Majic , just bigger and probably quicker. King got it right Barbosa is the fastest with Jet Terry chalanging for pure speed but harris is Quicker moving with the ball.

I have seen them both play right in front of my face. Dirk is the better athlete right now. No ifs ands or buts in my mind. None at all. Again you are watching Durant against college players, Dirk against the best in the world.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by turdbucket67

why even say such a foolish thing????

because its true, if i dropped the burgers and eggrolls in favor of steamed veggies and water. I would of at least played D1 and had a shot at the NBA

[ManilaRose]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

The NFL combine...the biggest pile of crap on the planet...Mike Mamula anyone???

I totally agree the combine is crap and in a round about way that's my point. It is more a measure of athleticism than it is how good of a player will you be. Durant would do better than Dirk in every athletic test I can think of other than the bench. It doesn't mean he'll be a better player, but it does make him more athletic.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

First thing.........Leandro Barbosa is the fastest. Now that that's settled, on to Durant.

I love the guy's game. In college. In college, he's got all of the skills he needs. I am not sure how it can be said that he's not athletic. I see a very nice athlete. To say he's not as good an athlete as Dirk is crazy to me. He's not as physically mature as Dirk is but he's easily a better athlete. The thing I like about him is that he's very polished and poised offensively. He takes exactly what the defense gives him. He has the ability to go into the post and score even though I don't really think he has much of a post game. He's got the perfect game for college.

When he gets to the NBA, he's going to find the going a whole lot tougher. He's going to be able to score 20 a game simply because of his skills and size. He is a mismatch for most people because of his size and skills, sort of like Garnett and Dirk in that regard. But I think he's going to have problems in trying to become a dominant offensive player. I don't see him with a signature move at this point. In the pros, he won't be able to hold a position on the block because he's not big enough. Will he add size? Maybe. If he does, will it take away from his effectiveness on the perimeter? Maybe. I don't see him with the quickness to beat 2's and 3's off the dribble in the NBA. And I think he's going to be able to be guarded by those because he's primarily a perimeter player. Guys like McGrady, James, Bowen, etc will be able to guard him and he won't be able to take advantage of his height advantage and he won't out-quick them. Another problem that I think he'll have is the exact opposite of what works for him in college. Whereas in college he takes what the defense gives him, in the pros, they won't give him anything. He's going to have to take things from them. That's what separates the true superstars. Guys like Bryant, Wade, James, Dirk, Anthony, Iverson, McGrady, etc., they have the ability to take what they want at any point in the game. I haven't seen that ability yet from Durant. The more I watch him play, the less I'm impressed with him. As I said, he'll be a valuable addition to a team. He'll score points. But he won't be able to dominate like he has in college. The player I am most reminded of when I watch him........Bob McAdoo. The current players that I would compare him to are probably Loul Deng, Antawn Jamison, and Tim Thomas.

Thought this would be interesting to bring back up and see who's been the closest to being right. Currently, Durant is averaging 20 a night, is very weak on the glass with only 4.2 boards and is not much of a passer at 2.1 assists. He gets to the line 5.5 times a game and he's shooting 39.9% from the field. He's playing the 2-guard position in the NBA. Last night, I watched his game against the Lakers. He shot 6-26 from the field and scored 19 points. He had one rebound and one assist. He shot as many 3's as free throws, six each. He was guarded by Kobe Bryant during the game. I don't recall seeing him in the post at all. The Sonics had the ball for the final possession of regulation with about 20 seconds left. They got the ball to Durant on an isolation with Kobe guarding him. The shot they got from Durant was a fadeway 20-footer that wasn't even close. He had no chance of getting by Bryant and getting to the line or getting a closer shot. This is what I was saying. He's not going to be quicker on the perimeter than 2-guards in the NBA. Maybe if they put some small forwards on him, he can outquick them but not guards. And he has no post-game whatsoever. He doesn't have the size to go with his height to be able to get and hold a position on the blocks against these guys. A lot of the 2-guards in this league are bigger than he is, weight wise. He will add size as he goes along but it's my belief that it still won't make him a post player. He doesn't have that mentality. You see guys like Dirk and KG. They can do it on occassion but when it's not your mentality, it's just not. I think you can take Jamison out of the comparison because he's much more aggressive offensively and rebounds way better. Thomas and Deng are very good comparisons though. They both rebound very bad for their size (Thomas is a career 4.2 guy and he's 6'10") and are more comfortable on the perimeter than on the block. Durant is looking more and more like the guy he replaced up in Seattle, Rashard Lewis.

[Mortimer]

Shut up Glorious...yer mekin' me sick already.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Thought this would be interesting to bring back up and see who's been the closest to being right. Currently, Durant is averaging 20 a night, is very weak on the glass with only 4.2 boards and is not much of a passer at 2.1 assists. He gets to the line 5.5 times a game and he's shooting 39.9% from the field. He's playing the 2-guard position in the NBA. Last night, I watched his game against the Lakers. He shot 6-26 from the field and scored 19 points. He had one rebound and one assist. He shot as many 3's as free throws, six each. He was guarded by Kobe Bryant during the game. I don't recall seeing him in the post at all. The Sonics had the ball for the final possession of regulation with about 20 seconds left. They got the ball to Durant on an isolation with Kobe guarding him. The shot they got from Durant was a fadeway 20-footer that wasn't even close. He had no chance of getting by Bryant and getting to the line or getting a closer shot. This is what I was saying. He's not going to be quicker on the perimeter than 2-guards in the NBA. Maybe if they put some small forwards on him, he can outquick them but not guards. And he has no post-game whatsoever. He doesn't have the size to go with his height to be able to get and hold a position on the blocks against these guys. A lot of the 2-guards in this league are bigger than he is, weight wise. He will add size as he goes along but it's my belief that it still won't make him a post player. He doesn't have that mentality. You see guys like Dirk and KG. They can do it on occassion but when it's not your mentality, it's just not. I think you can take Jamison out of the comparison because he's much more aggressive offensively and rebounds way better. Thomas and Deng are very good comparisons though. They both rebound very bad for their size (Thomas is a career 4.2 guy and he's 6'10") and are more comfortable on the perimeter than on the block. Durant is looking more and more like the guy he replaced up in Seattle, Rashard Lewis.

As I believe I said he is not a great athlete. Durant has a wonderfully quick jump shot. He is playing on an absolutely horrid team and he is being told to shoot anytime he touches the ball. He will be a great catch and shoot player.
And he will go to the basket once he actually puts on some muscle. He is a skinny kid.

Durant is probably the weakest player in the NBA. Nahh he has to be. Should have stayed at Texas because I said so.

I think you have hit on an important theme about posting up. But the mentality that allows one to want to post up is the ability not to be moved from a spot easily.

All the guys you mention have very little lower body strength.
Garnett is so much more athletic compared to Duncan but he has never been able to guard Duncan because Duncan backs down with his ample butt and keeps Garnett stuck on the floor. You look at a guy like David Robinson and he was all muscle upstairs. But down low, no legs or butt thus no post up game. Same with most of the guys you mentioned. Rasheed Wallace can post but it is almost always followed by a jumper falling away... no chance for a tip or quick grab and put back when you do that. And Rasheed just cannot wear people down like Duncan or Shaq (when he is healthy), he cant take the beating. And part of it is he is not big enough low. His center of mass is too high to post consistently.

Lower body strength is something that I think is overlooked. Charles Barkely was incredibly strong down low and in the upper body so at 6' 5" or 6' 6" he was a great post up player.

Where are the JJ. Reddick folks?

[Mortimer]

Mr. PeeGarden,sir..what is your fascination with men's dupas?