1,719 ... That's All (The) Folks!

Beautiful Belmont Park ... which can comfrotably manage a throng of 60,000 ... but which gets kind of close when 80,000 show up ... and is absolutely cramped when 100,000 squeeze in ...

... played host yesterday to 1,719 breathing souls ... on a drizzly day ... and about 1,000 more than that on the prior glorious late-summer day.


Yes ... we all know ... most of the betting these days is done away from the track ... but ... how can this game survive when attendance at the huge Belmont plant ... America's biggest thoroughbred showcase ... is no higher than that of a dog track?

And what is the NYRA trying to do about it?

[horse for the course]

Slot machines.

[Sightseek]

It drives me nuts to see how many people will show up for a cheap sportsbag but won't show up for one of racings most historical races like the Whitney.

I hope somehow the NYRA finds a way to build interest in the JCGC this year...it's a perfect opportunity for them having the most anticipated match-up of classic horses, a talented sprinter and several top turf horses.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Cut take-out by 5% for those at the track.

[The Bid]

Great Idea Scuds

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Cut take-out by 5% for those at the track.

That makes so much sense. Im sure they would never consider. The amazing thing is the average bettor dosent even understand this.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by jpops757

That makes so much sense. Im sure they would never consider. The amazing thing is the average bettor dosent even understand this.

Can the tracks afford to do this though?

[blackthroatedwind]

Do you understand the process NYRA has to go through to get the take-out changed?

I assume you realize when they tried to cut it a few years ago that OTB, which has no legal right to have any say whatsoever, blocked the move. Then, in order to be able to offer their rebate plan, which they had been trying to institute for a number of years, NYRA was forced to raise the take-out 1% ( on WPS ) to satisfy OTB.

So, while lowering take-out is a great idea, and hopefully will happen all around in the future, the off-hand suggestion in this case is unrealistic to say the least. Hell, it takes the NY State Racing and Wagering Board a year or more to approve even the minutest of changes. I don't think people understand how badly NYRA's hands are tied.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

It drives me nuts to see how many people will show up for a cheap sportsbag but won't show up for one of racings most historical races like the Whitney.

I hope somehow the NYRA finds a way to build interest in the JCGC this year...it's a perfect opportunity for them having the most anticipated match-up of classic horses, a talented sprinter and several top turf horses.

I was at Saratoga for Whitney Day and it was just under 30,000. No giveaway, I think that is a very very good attendance. Saratoga is not a good example to use on this type of post. They will get from 15,000 to 20,000 during the week and from 20,000 to 30,000 on the weekends. Though weather and giveaways can play havoc on occasions with those numbers.

It's a trend not just at Belmont but all over the country. Look what Hollywood and Santa Anita will bring in during the week. One reason is summer's over and most are back to work and school. But having said that Belmont on the weekends should be attracting huge crowds. It's in the shadow of the country's largest city, a betting and racing fan city at that.
That I don't understand.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by boswd

I was at Saratoga for Whitney Day and it was just under 30,000. No giveaway, I think that is a very very good attendance. Saratoga is not a good example to use on this type of post. They will get from 15,000 to 20,000 during the week and from 20,000 to 30,000 on the weekends. Though weather and giveaways can play havoc on occasions with those numbers.

It's a trend not just at Belmont but all over the country. Look what Hollywood and Santa Anita will bring in during the week. One reason is summer's over and most are back to work and school. But having said that Belmont on the weekends should be attracting huge crowds. It's in the shadow of the country's largest city, a betting and racing fan city at that.
That I don't understand.

I was there on Whitney day (and every other big stakes day) and found it pretty startling that the sunday of the giveaway bag was far and away more crowded than those days and the racing card was terrible. But you're right, no track draws attendance like Saratoga. (and Keeneland)

Originally Posted by boswd

I was at Saratoga for Whitney Day and it was just under 30,000. No giveaway, I think that is a very very good attendance. Saratoga is not a good example to use on this type of post. They will get from 15,000 to 20,000 during the week and from 20,000 to 30,000 on the weekends. Though weather and giveaways can play havoc on occasions with those numbers.

It's a trend not just at Belmont but all over the country. Look what Hollywood and Santa Anita will bring in during the week. One reason is summer's over and most are back to work and school. But having said that Belmont on the weekends should be attracting huge crowds. It's in the shadow of the country's largest city, a betting and racing fan city at that.
That I don't understand.

We attended Mineshaft's Woodward; the place was an echo chamber. We are going to attend Bernardini's Jockey Club Gold Cup. I think the attendance will be better, but still pathetic. In the 1970's we regularly attended and were part of large crowds. The Marlboro Cup with 40,000 in attendance in 1978 stands out. We were there to see Seattle Slew and Affirmed hook up; it was thrilling. Simulcasting, OTB's proliferating, and at-home betting spelled the doom.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Cut take-out by 5% for those at the track.

Give this man a kewpie doll ...

... best idea of the year.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Do you understand the process NYRA has to go through to get the take-out changed?

I assume you realize when they tried to cut it a few years ago that OTB, which has no legal right to have any say whatsoever, blocked the move. Then, in order to be able to offer their rebate plan, which they had been trying to institute for a number of years, NYRA was forced to raise the take-out 1% ( on WPS ) to satisfy OTB.

So, while lowering take-out is a great idea, and hopefully will happen all around in the future, the off-hand suggestion in this case is unrealistic to say the least. Hell, it takes the NY State Racing and Wagering Board a year or more to approve even the minutest of changes. I don't think people understand how badly NYRA's hands are tied.

I mentioned this on another NYRA thread ...

... some things they're to blame for ... and things like this they're not.

When you're treading water in the cesspool of New York State politics ... it's all you can do to stay sane.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Beautiful Belmont Park ... which can comfrotably manage a throng of 60,000 ... but which gets kind of close when 80,000 show up ... and is absolutely cramped when 100,000 squeeze in ...

... played host yesterday to 1,719 breathing souls ... on a drizzly day ... and about 1,000 more than that on the prior glorious late-summer day.


Yes ... we all know ... most of the betting these days is done away from the track ... but ... how can this game survive when attendance at the huge Belmont plant ... America's biggest thoroughbred showcase ... is no higher than that of a dog track?

And what is the NYRA trying to do about it?

I share your concern with low attendance, but as long as handle remains high, racing will continue. When gambling was briefly banned in NY in... 1910? Was that when? tracks closed all over the state. It's always been about the money, and as long as people can bet at an OTB, why go to a track?

Unfortunately, as long as the horses are the stars, and race so infrequently and are retired so soon, it'll be hard to attract casual fans because they don't have anyone to root for with any regularity or length of time. I believe in Europe, jockeys are stars on par with the horses, and they at least have some sort of a career for a fan to follow.

And yeah, I'd cut the takeout, too (and thank you, btw, for explaining why it's such a huge deal to do so. I didn't know that).

BB, you brought up the topic-- what would you do?

[post2post]

they are stealing money with their handle.

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I share your concern with low attendance, but as long as handle remains high, racing will continue. When gambling was briefly banned in NY in... 1910? Was that when? tracks closed all over the state.

BB, you brought up the topic-- what would you do?

Tracks didn't close all over New York ... they closed all over Brooklyn.

Three of the most important tracks in the country ... Gravesend, Sheepshead Bay, and Brighton (a/k/a Coney Island) ... all located within a 2-square mile patch in the neighborhood which would later become famous for my living there ... closed because of draconian anti-betting laws.

There's a very simple solution to New York thoroughbred racing's woes ... which will never, ever be implemented ...

Get the politicians' hands off it and out of it ... and let it be treated as shabbily as all other businesses are in New York ... not more shabbilier as it currently is.

But as I said ... never gonna happen.

[boswd]

The attendance problem is all over the country. The sport has it days in the sun, KY Derby and the rest of the TC races, Saratoga and to a certain degree Del Mar. These are the days and places where the NNBP (normally non betting public) will come out and enjoy a day at the races.
The decline is hard to pinpoint when it started. I am guessing somewhere around the early to mid 80's. The '70's was the last true golden decade of the sport where people came out in droves to the tracks. I am sure it's not a coinicidence that was also the last decade to see a triple crown winner. Horse racing up through the 70's was part of the Big 4 Football, Baseball,Boxing and Horse racing.
I have my own theory on that : Like all the sports, with the exception of the NFL, they all go through a popularity slump. What other sports have done is find a star or stars, hitch their wagon to it and market to the most obvious target market. Kids!!! The NBA did it with Dr.J, Larry Bird and Majic Johnson to get it out of its attendance and interest slump. Baseball did with McGuire and Sosa.
Now horse racing can produce stars but it's hands are tied with marketing. How can you market your sport towards kids when a major aspect of horse racing is gamblling? You can't. They have been hoping for a Triple Crown winner to help them out. they have gotten close with the great stories behind Funny Cide and Smarty Jones. And even Cigar helped bring people out to the tracks.
So I think it needs a bona fide superstar, not a budding one but a true star ,one that will race across the country much like Cigar did. Until then the sport will have to be content with the KY Derby The Preakness, The Belmont and Saratoga to draw the NNBP.

[Nostradamus]

This is obviously a post from an old man. Who cares about live racing? It is for dinosaurs. Even the big races like the derby are better on tv. The sport is so much better on high-def tv than it is live. Watching it live is boring, whether you are at Saratoga or Fairplex.

The mornings around the horses are great but why would you go to live racing? You sit around for 30 minutes bored out of your mind waiting for the next race.

The only reason to go to a place like Saratoga or any track is for entertainment and to hang around with people, unless you own the horse. The funny thing is many of the top owners don't even show up for their races. Belmont is great in the mornings and to go over for the big race, but other than that watching it while watching football or something else is much better. The tv's on the 3rd floor in the clubhouse at belmont are good on football weekends, but sometimes I go to belmont and just watch on tv anyway.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

This is obviously a post from an old man. Who cares about live racing? It is for dinosaurs. Even the big races like the derby are better on tv. The sport is so much better on high-def tv than it is live. Watching it live is boring, whether you are at Saratoga or Fairplex.

The mornings around the horses are great but why would you go to live racing? You sit around for 30 minutes bored out of your mind waiting for the next race.

The only reason to go to a place like Saratoga or any track is for entertainment and to hang around with people, unless you own the horse. The funny thing is many of the top owners don't even show up for their races. Belmont is great in the mornings and to go over for the big race, but other than that watching it while watching football or something else is much better. The tv's on the 3rd floor in the clubhouse at belmont are good on football weekends, but sometimes I go to belmont and just watch on tv anyway.

I would show up if I could. I don't live anywhere near a track (with the exception of Tampa Bay Downs one hour away.) I enjoy the smell of the horses... yes, even the horse shiat. It's exciting to me to see them in the paddock and the post parade live and up close.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

This is obviously a post from an old man. Who cares about live racing? It is for dinosaurs. Even the big races like the derby are better on tv. The sport is so much better on high-def tv than it is live. Watching it live is boring, whether you are at Saratoga or Fairplex.

The mornings around the horses are great but why would you go to live racing? You sit around for 30 minutes bored out of your mind waiting for the next race.

The only reason to go to a place like Saratoga or any track is for entertainment and to hang around with people, unless you own the horse. The funny thing is many of the top owners don't even show up for their races. Belmont is great in the mornings and to go over for the big race, but other than that watching it while watching football or something else is much better. The tv's on the 3rd floor in the clubhouse at belmont are good on football weekends, but sometimes I go to belmont and just watch on tv anyway.

Are you kidding me?
I would give up TV, OTB and radio in a heartbeat if it meant I could spend everyday of my life watching live racing. I've never noticed the time between races but perhaps I'm too busy taking in the wind blowing through mare hair, the shiny coats in the paddock and studying the form...all things they can never re-create via Hi-Def.