Speed Figs

[dean smith]

Would someone explain to me how the Brisnet speed figures differ to the Beyer speed figs? They seem pretty comparable when dealing with horses and races of the highest class (a 117 Beyer is pretty close to a Brisnet 117 in the BC Classic, for instance), but the lower you go down the allowance and claiming ladders, the discrepancies seem to become much greater (the lowest bottom-feeders seem to have a hard time dropping below a low 50s Brisnet, for instance).

Does anyone know the differences in the way these figures are arrived at, and if I'm using the Brisnets, is there any adjusting that needs to be made to my own handicapping (having learned most of what I know through books and articles that deal with Beyer figs)?

Twin Spires users might have a better idea of what I'm talking about, although I'm not sure what PPs other sites use.

[Thunder Gulch]

Though the methodology is similar and both Beyer and Brisnet use "projection time" figures, the numbers won't always be similar. First, Brisnet starts their baseline at 88 for the average winner (par) of $10k claiming races, while I believe Beyer starts at 80. Second, the points per length is different for each camp. Both do use a moving scale where a legth in a 6f race is worth more than a length in a 10 f race, but there is still a difference in the adjustment.

With differing par figure values and differing adjustments per lengths, you really can't compare the two to each other despite their foundation in a similar methodology.

[blackthroatedwind]

BRIS numbers are computer generated.

[the_fat_man]

Actually, if you head over to PACEADVANTAGE and do a search, there's much discussion of this topic, and I believe that CJ has posted a formula for converting between the two.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Actually, if you head over to PACEADVANTAGE and do a search, I believe that CJ has posted a formula for converting between the two.

I was just going to comment that if you know how the figures are made, of course you can compare them.

[Thunder Gulch]

As mentioned, Brisnet are computer generated and Beyers have become more subjective, so compare them at your own risk. Even if you have the established baselines and point per length adjustments, you can't make an accurate comparison when Beyer's associates are able to adjust figures for reasons they feel other than time.