La Troienne discussion

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Can only shake my head in DISGUST over what the misguided voters did to one of the TRULY great fillies (Z) of our lifetimes last year.



RA EXPOSED … AGAIN!!!

Yes. This year they MUST vote on HOY based on how they feel the horse will do in 2011. Voting on the actual year in question is outrageous.

[Cannon Shell]

Perhaps her reputation was enhanced by beating up on subpar competition last year and being that she matured early didnt have much improvement left?

Either way it is really hard to give her an excuse for todays race. How she was ridden is not a valid excuse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Hasn't anyone ever considered the following?

1. All the talk of RA not being the same as last year, well, it's due more to her facing decent horses this year as opposed to last. I felt that while yeah, she deserved HOY, all this talk of her all time greatness last year was ridiculous. The same can be said for Zenyatta.

2. This goes hand in hand with point 1. Zardana was undefeated prior to today on dirt. Unrivaled Belle has one loss, in which she went to the shelf immediately afterwards.

To me, she's the same horse she was last year, and I think her training schedule and race riding has helped expose her alleged greatness (all time), as has her competition.

What the hell happened today with Zardana anyways?

If i had first read your post i would have simply agreed

And Zardana was heard muttering something about the Rockies as they led her back to the barn

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

She a HOF if she retires this minute. I could care less that she lost her last 2.

While I agree she has probably accomplished enough already to be considered a HoF filly, her losses really show how the premature retirement of horses substantially affects our ability to judge them against the stars of the past.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Can only shake my head in DISGUST over what the misguided voters did to one of the TRULY great fillies (Z) of our lifetimes last year.



RA EXPOSED … AGAIN!!!

Yes. This year's results should have definitely been taken into consideration when they voted last year. Apparently the voters didn't have a "Go to the future" machine where they could have seen this year's races before voting.

I wonder what you were thinking when RA won up at Sar last year. Probably had to delete the "RA EXPOSED AGAIN" line from your post you were about to write....same thing must have happened after The Haskell as well.

What I don't get is the people who whined that Zenyatta got robbed last year think that this years races should be taken into account. Let it go. RA was the better horse last year. So far this year Zenyatta is the better horse.

And we will once again get to see Zenyatta beat a field of hopless horses back in So Cal at Hollywood next out. Real adventurous scheduling again by the Moss's. Apparently, unlike the rest of the racing world, they don't find it embarassing to run against 5 horse fields in So Cal.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Perhaps her reputation was enhanced by beating up on subpar competition last year and being that she matured early didnt have much improvement left?

Either way it is really hard to give her an excuse for todays race. How she was ridden is not a valid excuse.

I thought Rachel ran well today. She's obviously not the same Rachel we watched last year, cause she won the close one's last year. But she ran a game race. Its not like she ran 5th by 20.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

. RA was the better horse last year. So far this year Zenyatta is the better horse.

If you want to say RA accomplished more last year and desreved the HoY more than Z, I would agree. Who was the better horse? How can you definitely say?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I thought Rachel ran well today. She's obviously not the same Rachel we watched last year, cause she won the close one's last year. But she ran a game race. Its not like she ran 5th by 20.

Ran well relative to??? She ran a close 2nd to a pretty good filly. There is no disgrace in that. But there is nothing that she ran against last year that has done a thing this year. Nothing.

[tbonds]

Ra vs. Z??
Look over the longer period of time. Z as put together several good years.
Ra has a short span of being good. Hands down the big Z is and will be the better when you compare them.

[Honu]

Maybe they will just haul her over to the farm tonight and throw her in the stall with Curlin , perhaps that is what she is trying to tell them.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Ran well relative to??? She ran a close 2nd to a pretty good filly. There is no disgrace in that. But there is nothing that she ran against last year that has done a thing this year. Nothing.

I just thought she ran a good race. Obviously not relative to last year.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

While I agree she has probably accomplished enough already to be considered a HoF filly, her losses really show how the premature retirement of horses substantially affects our ability to judge them against the stars of the past.

Which is why the 4 yr old campaign of Spec Bid is unparalleled in racing history.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by tbonds

Ra vs. Z??
Look over the longer period of time. Z as put together several good years.
Ra has a short span of being good. Hands down the big Z is and will be the better when you compare them.

no offense, but you can only compare them if they race against each other.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Honu

Maybe they will just haul her over to the farm tonight and throw her in the stall with Curlin , perhaps that is what she is trying to tell them.

when does breeding season end?

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you want to say RA accomplished more last year and desreved the HoY more than Z, I would agree. Who was the better horse? How can you definitely say?

Until they face each other nobody can really say who is better. Last year they both were great....but RA definitely accomplished much more. If The Moss's had not played "scared" all year and won the Hollywood Gold Cup or The Pacific Classic, and not faced a bunch of turds last year then one could argue she deserved it. But her campaign up until The BC was embarassing.

Hopefully they get to meet this year to settle the score.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Honu

Maybe they will just haul her over to the farm tonight and throw her in the stall with Curlin , perhaps that is what she is trying to tell them.

Maybe she's "pining for the fjords." You're welcome, Monty Python fans.

I'd love to watch either Rachel and Zenyatta run without arguing about how talented a horse is who's not even in the race. This is tiresome.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

when does breeding season end?

Ideally she would have been bred by now , Im no expert but you gotta think that in the next couple of weeks breeding season will have ended , even at that it would still make it a late foal.
The filly just isnt cracking 11 and change 1/8ths like she was last year , she is getting slow fractions and cant accelerate off of them , sometimes when fillies run like she did last year and then get time off they just say the heck with it . Im not saying she didnt try today , what Im saying is her brilliance is not there.

[CSC]

Why should Rachel retire? She has been competitive in 2 races this year losing by no more than a combined length. I'm sure the numbers guys will tell us she will beyer better than the 100 she got in the N.O Ladies and that would put her in the 107 range of the Woodward, so what's wrong with that? Unless people's opinions of her were so sky high to begin with, then maybe it is a big surprise then. She lost to a very good filly and Rachel ran a good race give both some credit.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

I'm sure the numbers guys will tell us she will beyer better than the 100 she got in the N.O Ladies and that would put her in the 107 range of the Woodward, so what's wrong with that?

Pretty sure you're wrong about that. And she ran a 109 in the Woodward.

[tbonds]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

no offense, but you can only compare them if they race against each other.

They had that chance, but backed out. Do you think its a fear factor on Jess's part?