Historian Ed Bowen on ATR (9:30a) re: record-keeping, modern era, et al..

Kasept · #1 12-14-2011, 07:44 AM

Racing's foremost historian Ed Bowen on ATR Wednesday at 9:30 to discuss the sport's record keeping, defining the modern era and Rapid Redux in context v. Roseben (1905), Donald Macdonald (1913) and Citation (1948). Tune in Sirius 93, XM 209, Sirius Online Sports Zone 860 & streaming at www.stevebyk.com

cmorioles · #2 12-14-2011, 08:56 AM

Was Donald Macdonald talk in the first 6 minutes?

cmorioles · #3 12-14-2011, 09:17 AM

Nice job Steve. To best way to find the Keeneland library is to search for "DRF Archives", it comes up on top in Google.

dino · #4 12-14-2011, 09:58 AM

maybe we can enjoy the rapid redux story and not have to consult historians that talk about horses that ran in the 1800's and early 1900's. obviously nobody in his right mind is comparing him to a citation but it's a cute story in a time in racing where cute stories are enjoyable.
problem here is the same people that stick up for scum like dutrow are putting down rapid redux's accomplishments.
seems to me that this whole thing is the same type of thing as the whole tebow story. no one in their right mind is comparing him to a brady but once again it's a cute story in a sport filled with bad people like big ben.

cmorioles · #5 12-14-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino

maybe we can enjoy the rapid redux story and not have to consult historians that talk about horses that ran in the 1800's and early 1900's. obviously nobody in his right mind is comparing him to a citation but it's a cute story in a time in racing where cute stories are enjoyable.
problem here is the same people that stick up for scum like dutrow are putting down rapid redux's accomplishments.
seems to me that this whole thing is the same type of thing as the whole tebow story. no one in their right mind is comparing him to a brady but once again it's a cute story in a sport filled with bad people like big ben.

It is a good story, but can't we at least not make up stuff to make the story better?

GPK · #6 12-14-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It is a good story, but can't we at least not make up stuff to make the story better?

Come on, I mean really, what's a few historical inaccuracies among friends?

blackthroatedwind · #7 12-14-2011, 10:04 AM

I just hate it when truth rears its ugly head in the face of fantasy.

GPK · #8 12-14-2011, 10:15 AM

Other than getting to write their own fictional fantasies, what is really gained by those that are refusing to acknowledge the real streak set by Donald McDonald?

cmorioles · #9 12-14-2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

Other than getting to write their own fictional fantasies, what is really gained by those that are refusing to acknowledge the real streak set by Donald McDonald?

They don't have to do a retraction? I don't see why that is a big deal, but I can't think of anything else. People should certainly understand the difficulty in finding records like this in horse racing.

cmorioles · #10 12-14-2011, 10:28 AM

Also, Imp still doesn't get mentioned and she beat it as well.

Kasept · #11 12-14-2011, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino

maybe we can enjoy the rapid redux story and not have to consult historians that talk about horses that ran in the 1800's and early 1900's. obviously nobody in his right mind is comparing him to a citation but it's a cute story in a time in racing where cute stories are enjoyable.

problem here is the same people that stick up for scum like dutrow are putting down rapid redux's accomplishments.
seems to me that this whole thing is the same type of thing as the whole tebow story. no one in their right mind is comparing him to a brady but once again it's a cute story in a sport filled with bad people like big ben.

The cutest part of the story for me is owner Cole that had to be browbeaten into retiring millionaire Shake You Down instead of running him for $5k. It's so cute when that happens... And it's heart-warming having Cole lauded when he's almost certainly sent countless horses he's used up on the track off to slaughter. I love that part of the cute story.

Kasept · #12 12-14-2011, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nice job Steve. To best way to find the Keeneland library is to search for "DRF Archives", it comes up on top in Google.

Thx CJ! Glad you tuned in..

Bowen is terrific. I forget to reach out to him and am always delighted when he visits. He has a wealth of history to draw from and his books are invaluable for anyone who wants to appreciate the sports vast heritage.

I'll put links up for those unfamiliar with his work...

cmorioles · #13 12-14-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The cutest part of the story for me is owner Cole that had to be browbeaten into retiring millionaire Shake You Down instead of running him for $5k. It's so cute when that happens... And it's heart-warming having Cole lauded when he's almost certainly sent countless horses he's used up on the track off to slaughter. I love that part of the cute story.

How dare us have a jaded view of a guy with the history of Cole Steve!

Calzone Lord · #14 12-14-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

Thx CJ! Glad you tuned in..

Bowen is terrific. I forget to reach out to him and am always delighted when he visits. He has a wealth of history to draw from and his books are invaluable for anyone who wants to appreciate the sports vast heritage.

I'll put links up for those unfamiliar with his work...

I had to pick up my father from the hospital but I caught part of it when Seth Merrow was on and will check the archive.

Great job. The DRF Archive/Keeneland Library project needs a great push. There is a ton of great stuff up there and it's so easy searching once you get the hang of the advanced search feature. You can pull up what you're looking for in seconds.

It will be tremendous if the project ever gets finished... obviously it's incomplete right now and would need a little more funding.

A lot of good stuff is especially in the Jan 2nd through 7th editions. They have detailed stats on a wide range of things -- including trainer stats, jockey stats, and horse record stats for all who made $3,000 or more in Earnings for the prior calendar year.

Antitrust32 · #15 12-14-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The cutest part of the story for me is owner Cole that had to be browbeaten into retiring millionaire Shake You Down instead of running him for $5k. It's so cute when that happens... And it's heart-warming having Cole lauded when he's almost certainly sent countless horses he's used up on the track off to slaughter. I love that part of the cute story.

Cole is the worst kind of scum!

dino · #16 12-15-2011, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

The cutest part of the story for me is owner Cole that had to be browbeaten into retiring millionaire Shake You Down instead of running him for $5k. It's so cute when that happens... And it's heart-warming having Cole lauded when he's almost certainly sent countless horses he's used up on the track off to slaughter. I love that part of the cute story.

Steve,

So moving forward you will only have guests on your show that retire all their horses to brighter pastures. BS.