The Michael Gill/Penn National Riders Saga

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LOL

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by Riot

1. If you are not rich enough as an owner to race horses and not abuse them in an attempt to earn money, you don't need to be in the business.

2. If you think money trumps the lives of horses, you don't need to be in the business.

3. If you want to consciously abuse animals in the name of business, by racing them when they should not be raced, just to make money, you need to not be in the sport.

4. If "It doesn't work well, I've tried" is your excuse, that other people force you to abuse your own animals to make money to pay your bills, then you need not only to not be in the sport, you need a spine transplant.

5. If the above post defining "two fundamental things" is truely how you think of horses and horse racing, you need to not be in the sport.

No one ever said abuse the horses, but if you are so uninformed as to think more than 40% of the horses who go to the gate don't have something bothering them, you are joking. There is a lot of gray area when it comes to is the horse able to go or not. I would never abuse a hores, but you sometimes have to start one that is a little sore or you'd never enter a horse.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Riot

1. If you are not rich enough as an owner to race horses and not abuse them in an attempt to earn money, you don't need to be in the business.

2. If you think money trumps the lives of horses, you don't need to be in the business.

3. If you want to consciously abuse animals in the name of business, by racing them when they should not be raced, just to make money, you need to not be in the sport.

4. If "It doesn't work well, I've tried" is your excuse, that other people force you to abuse your own animals to make money to pay your bills, then you need not only to not be in the sport, you need a spine transplant.

5. If the above post defining "two fundamental things" is truely how you think of horses and horse racing, you need to not be in the sport.

as much as in pains me, Sharp Post.

[Cannon Shell]

One complete untruth posted several times in this thread is that Gill makes money on his horse racing operation. That being said this thread is still several levels above the drivel in the comment section on Paulicks site...

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

One complete untruth posted several times in this thread is that Gill makes money on his horse racing operation. That being said this thread is still several levels above the drivel in the comment section on Paulicks site...

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

He's an ego maniac Freddy, why else would he operate the way he is?

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

No one ever said abuse the horses, but if you are so uninformed as to think more than 40% of the horses who go to the gate don't have something bothering them, you are joking. There is a lot of gray area when it comes to is the horse able to go or not. I would never abuse a hores, but you sometimes have to start one that is a little sore or you'd never enter a horse.

There is a cyclopean difference between running a sore horse and knowingly running a horse that is on the verge of a catastrophic breakdown.

I believe that is the point, which you have obviously missed.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

He's an ego maniac Freddy, why else would he operate the way he is?

I don't know anything about Gill or his personality.. Have you met him or is your ego maniac chacterizeration based on track lure? He might be the jerk or a great charity sweet guy for all I know? I will say that if the jocks who are typically free agents only interested in there themselves are unified something appears to be very wrong.

I think the guy business is Mortgages in New England well that business can't be extremely profitable currently anyway.. I would think he is looking to earn not crack a bottle of Petrus when his 40 nickle claimer bounces on a field.

[Thoroughbred Fan]

Originally Posted by ARyan

There is a cyclopean differnce between running a sore horse and knowingly running a horse that is on the verge of a catastrophic breakdown.

I believe that is the point, which you have obviously missed.

I don't think you can tell the difference. I've seen the soundest horses breakdown. Bad steps happen. I've also seen a horse who couldn't really work between starts win about 100k in a year in lower level claimers.

Making the call as to when the horse should and shouldn't be run is not as black and white as you seem to think.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

I don't think you can tell the difference. I've seen the soundest horses breakdown. Bad steps happen. I've also seen a horse who couldn't really work between starts win about 100k in a year in lower level claimers.

Making the call as to when the horse should and shouldn't be run is not as black and white as you seem to think.

You are right when you say accidents do happen but I would say that any dilligent trainer should and would know what is going on with their stock.
It is apparent that riders have noticed a trend with Gill's horses and they have noticed enough to know it isnt worth the risk to ride them , for now anyway.

[ARyan]

Originally Posted by Thoroughbred Fan

I don't think you can tell the difference. I've seen the soundest horses breakdown. Bad steps happen. I've also seen a horse who couldn't really work between starts win about 100k in a year in lower level claimers.

Making the call as to when the horse should and shouldn't be run is not as black and white as you seem to think.

Obviously injuries of this nature can happen at anytime, anyone with even a limited knowledge of the game knows this.

You, sir, are not the only person on this board who has a history with ownership, or a knowledge of "making calls."

A reasonable decision process, on if a horse can race or is on the verge of breaking down and should not run, can be made. Is anything ever 100%, no, but with proper precautions and plausible judegment you can mitigate risk.

However, I guess this way of thinking is just considered being a "horsey lover," and not being a dilligent owner/trainer.

By just throwing caution into the wind, and running horses by any means necessary, even those who are on the verge of breaking down, you are knowingly risking the lives of every horse and every human in the race.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Honu

You are right when you say accidents do happen but I would say that any dilligent trainer should and would know what is going on with their stock.
It is apparent that riders have noticed a trend with Gill's horses and they have noticed enough to know it isnt worth the risk to ride them , for now anyway.

They won't even ride in races if they did ship in someone to ride the stock..That is saying a lot.

[MISTERGEE]

Gill has 2 in tomorrow, will his entries get scratched?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by freddymo

How would you know his P&L.. Your telling me he is doing this for the thrill of winning 5 claimers? I don't know if he is making money or losing money?

Of course he's losing money... though not as much as before cause of the purses.

And no question he gets a big thrill from winning nickle claimers.

It's all about having action.

It's not like he hasn't tried buying expensive horses. He's bought several unraced horses for low-to-mid six figures.

The most memorable of which was Forest Music.

Forest Music was the first horse to ever work a 1/4 mile in 20 and change at the Calder 2yo sale. She won her debut like a freak for Gill/Shuman in 1:08 2/5ths - got a 105 Beyer.

Two weeks later, they shipped the obvious sprinter across country to run in the BC Juvie Fillies in the Halfbridled-Ashado race. They basically set her way back.

The very first race after Gill sold her ... she went and dominated the Grade 2 Honorable Miss at Saratoga for Stonestreet/Asmussen.

The guy doesn't have the patience of your typical wealthy snob owner.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The very first race after Gill sold her ... she went and dominated the Grade 2 Honorable Miss at Saratoga for Stonestreet/Asmussen.

Talk about easy money.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It's all about having action.

.

If he was a politician he would just go out and get himself a hooker.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by freddymo

They won't even ride in races if they did ship in someone to ride the stock..That is saying a lot.

You're talking about Penn National .... a place where Steph Beattie (best juice ever?) gets elected president of the HPBA.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

You're talking about Penn National .... a place where Steph Beattie (best juice ever?) gets elected president of the HPBA.

I voted for her.. Steph Beattie is aggressive were she places horses. When was her last positive?

[MISTERGEE]

she probably won because all the other beatties stuffed the ballot

[richard]

Originally Posted by ARyan

Obviously injuries of this nature can happen at anytime, anyone with even a limited knowledge of the game knows this.

You, sir, are not the only person on this board who has a history with ownership, or a knowledge of "making calls."

A reasonable decision process, on if a horse can race or is on the verge of breaking down and should not run, can be made. Is anything ever 100%, no, but with proper precautions and plausible judegment you can mitigate risk.

However, I guess this way of thinking is just considered being a "horsey lover," and not being a dilligent owner/trainer.

By just throwing caution into the wind, and running horses by any means necessary, even those who are on the verge of breaking down, you are knowingly risking the lives of every horse and every human in the race.

Well written sir.
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