What is C BROWN UP TO?

[gales0678]

[QUOTE=the_fat_man]The set of all the possible known and unknown drugs that could enhance the performance of a tbred is larger than the set that NYRA (or any other racing board) tests for. And, this doesn't apply to just horse racing but cycling, track and field, etc.

Assuming that Brown is cheating with this horse (and probably others) thus makes more sense than assuming that he's not cheating because he passed the detention barn. And this would be BEFORE the evident HUGE STEPUP in performance under Brown.

But, who cares? I've been in this game long enough to have a good idea as to who is juicing and who isn't by the way their horses perform. Brown's supporters can stand on their head, for all I care, but it won't make a difference. I formulate my own opinions.

Back in the '70's Pancho Martin was consistently leading trainer in NYC. No one questioned that Pancho was a very good trainer. It's interesting that Pancho would take all these OLD, seemingly broken down horses, that had back class, and get them, at age 5,6,7. etc., to run back to their best previous races -- from years prior. And, once they got 'in form' they'd stay in form. Get my drift?

The ironic thing is that I bet this horse and his other recent wipe-out special, Why West. She didn't run a HUGE race the other day, did she?[/quote]


then why have the detention barn at all , isn't it's primary reason in NY to stop cheating....are you telling us that it's ineffective and has holes in it that can be expolited?, if that's the case why have it at all , just for a public show?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by gales0678

[QUOTE=the_fat_man]The set of all the possible known and unknown drugs that could enhance the performance of a tbred is larger than the set that NYRA (or any other racing board) tests for. And, this doesn't apply to just horse racing but cycling, track and field, etc.

Assuming that Brown is cheating with this horse (and probably others) thus makes more sense than assuming that he's not cheating because he passed the detention barn. And this would be BEFORE the evident HUGE STEPUP in performance under Brown.

But, who cares? I've been in this game long enough to have a good idea as to who is juicing and who isn't by the way their horses perform. Brown's supporters can stand on their head, for all I care, but it won't make a difference. I formulate my own opinions.

Back in the '70's Pancho Martin was consistently leading trainer in NYC. No one questioned that Pancho was a very good trainer. It's interesting that Pancho would take all these OLD, seemingly broken down horses, that had back class, and get them, at age 5,6,7. etc., to run back to their best previous races -- from years prior. And, once they got 'in form' they'd stay in form. Get my drift?

The ironic thing is that I bet this horse and his other recent wipe-out special, Why West. She didn't run a HUGE race the other day, did she?

then why have the detention barn at all , isn't it's primary reason in NY to stop cheating....are you telling us that it's ineffective and has holes in it that can be expolited?, if that's the case why have it at all , just for a public show?[/quote]


The D Barn helps and very little bit that helps is good

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

then why have the detention barn at all , isn't it's primary reason in NY to stop cheating....are you telling us that it's ineffective and has holes in it that can be expolited?, if that's the case why have it at all , just for a public show?

I think the detention barn is more effective than ineffective.. at least it gave us I want revenge's trainer.

BUT... the drugs they can use to increase performance are always 1 step ahead of the drugs you can test for. If the drug testers figure out a way to test for a 3rd generation morphine then the chemists just develop a 4th generation that cant be tested for... and on and on.

This is just the plain and simple truth.

[gales0678]

Originally Posted by freddymo

then why have the detention barn at all , isn't it's primary reason in NY to stop cheating....are you telling us that it's ineffective and has holes in it that can be expolited?, if that's the case why have it at all , just for a public show?

The D Barn helps and very little bit that helps is good[/quote]


why not test randomly the 1st , 2nd and 3d places winners of certain races each day?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by gales0678

why not test randomly the 1st , 2nd and 3d places winners of certain races each day?

They do. NYRA always tests the first three finishers of each race, blood and urine, split samples sent off to labs. They also have the authority to test any random horse in the race or all the horses if they feel like it.. but they ALWAYS test the first three.

Thats why you see grooms or exercise riders whistling at the horses in the barn after they have a breeze, because it teaches the horse to urinate when it hears the whistle.. so its easier on them in the test barn.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by gales0678

The D Barn helps and very little bit that helps is good

why not test randomly the 1st , 2nd and 3d places winners of certain races each day?[/quote]

It also hurts a lot of horses, a la Corinthian. Poor Jimmy Jerkens could have had himself a real superhorse.

[Fearless Leader]

The dentention barn is a completely useless waste of stall space and does nothing to protect the integrity of the game. It is a massive inconvienience perpetrated by a massive bureaucaracy. The creators were hoping it would become an industry standard and it has become nothing more than an industry joke.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Fearless Leader

The dentention barn is a completely useless waste of stall space and does nothing to protect the integrity of the game. It is a massive inconvienience perpetrated by a massive bureaucaracy. The creators were hoping it would become an industry standard and it has become nothing more than an industry joke.

[DaTruth]

Why not just do away with testing for performance-enhancers and let the best cheaters rise to the top of the heap. Then we can criticize the losing trainers not for being bad trainers, but for being bad chemists.

Of course, we don't want horses breaking down because they are given drugs that mask the symptoms of muscle fatigue. So, tissue and blood samples are taken from every horse that dies, breaks down, or is pulled up during or immediately after a race. If the samples contain any banned medication, criminal charges of animal cruelty can be brought against the trainer. If the states and the federal government can come up with extensive schedules of controlled dangerous substances banned for use by humans except under a doctor's supervision, then so can racing. 30 days away from the track and training centers is a vacation without pay for some trainers. 30 days in jail for first-time offenders might get some attention.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

BUT... the drugs they can use to increase performance are always 1 step ahead of the drugs you can test for. If the drug testers figure out a way to test for a 3rd generation morphine then the chemists just develop a 4th generation that cant be tested for... and on and on.

This is just the plain and simple truth.

I think you are absolutely giving these guys too much credit I talk to several other vets that work in various states, and everyone knows what the current hot fad drugs are these morons are trying.

These guys are not chemists, nor pharmacologists, nor magicians. They are no more sophisticated chemically than the average meth dealer. They are not smart. They are not "one step ahead" all the time.

Believe me, if they were that adept, they'd easily make big bucks doing it legally

They buy regular human drugs and other made up crap off the internet, or get stuff through other grey-market sources, and throw it on the wall (into the horse) and see what sticks. "Let's try Viagra to see if the cardiovascular side effects will make the horse run faster"

Geesh, the harness guys try stuff way before the TB guys do The TB industry knows what's coming it's way.

There are not hundreds of magical, undetectable moveup drugs that make the horse run faster and farther, without detectable side effects or obvious changes in the horses' physiology (pupil dilation, heart rate, respiratory rate, muscle activity, sweating, etc)

I'm not saying there are not guys that cheat, or that there is stuff being used that's currently undetectable - of course there is.

It's just not the magical mystery tour chemical free-for-all some think it is. C'mon guys, we have to base it in reality.

Originally Posted by Riot

I think you are absolutely giving these guys too much credit I talk to several other vets that work in various states, and everyone knows what the current hot fad drugs are these morons are trying.

These guys are not chemists, nor pharmacologists, nor magicians. They are no more sophisticated chemically than the average meth dealer. They are not smart. They are not "one step ahead" all the time.

Believe me, if they were that adept, they'd easily make big bucks doing it legally

They buy regular human drugs and other made up crap off the internet, or get stuff through other grey-market sources, and throw it on the wall (into the horse) and see what sticks. "Let's try Viagra to see if the cardiovascular side effects will make the horse run faster"

Geesh, the harness guys try stuff way before the TB guys do The TB industry knows what's coming it's way.

There are not hundreds of magical, undetectable moveup drugs that make the horse run faster and farther, without detectable side effects or obvious changes in the horses' physiology (pupil dilation, heart rate, respiratory rate, muscle activity, sweating, etc)

I'm not saying there are not guys that cheat, or that there is stuff being used that's currently undetectable - of course there is.

It's just not the magical mystery tour chemical free-for-all some think it is. C'mon guys, we have to base it in reality.

Did you read her post or are you hitting the bottle tonight?

[Rupert Pupkin]

The detention barn is good because it prevents guys from giving anything to the horse within 6 hours (or however long they have to stay in the detention barn for) of the race. Most of the undetectable drugs that the cheaters give the horses were usually given to the horse a few hours before the race. So at least the test barn prevents this from happening.

Unfortunately some of the more sophisticated cheaters have stuff that is so strong that it does not have to be admisitered within a few hours of the race.

So the bottom line is that the detention barn stops your average cheater but it doesn't stop your really sophisticated cheater that has drugs that don't need to be administered within a few hours of the race.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Did you read her post or are you hitting the bottle tonight?

Thank you! Riot.. that post made my head hurt

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaTruth

Why not just do away with testing for performance-enhancers and let the best cheaters rise to the top of the heap. Then we can criticize the losing trainers not for being bad trainers, but for being bad chemists.

Of course, we don't want horses breaking down because they are given drugs that mask the symptoms of muscle fatigue. So, tissue and blood samples are taken from every horse that dies, breaks down, or is pulled up during or immediately after a race. If the samples contain any banned medication, criminal charges of animal cruelty can be brought against the trainer. If the states and the federal government can come up with extensive schedules of controlled dangerous substances banned for use by humans except under a doctor's supervision, then so can racing. 30 days away from the track and training centers is a vacation without pay for some trainers. 30 days in jail for first-time offenders might get some attention.

The little problem of burden of proof may get in the way of your plan. You would need to prove that the drugs found in the system were a direct cause for the horse to breakdown which almost certainly wont be the case. Racing has an extensive list already hence the positive tests.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

The detention barn is good because it prevents guys from giving anything to the horse within 6 hours (or however long they have to stay in the detention barn for) of the race. Most of the undetectable drugs that the cheaters give the horses were usually given to the horse a few hours before the race. So at least the test barn prevents this from happening.

Unfortunately some of the more sophisticated cheaters have stuff that is so strong that it does not have to be admisitered within a few hours of the race.

So the bottom line is that the detention barn stops your average cheater but it doesn't stop your really sophisticated cheater that has drugs that don't need to be administered within a few hours of the race.

This is a myth. If it were so then wouldn't it be fairly easy to catch guys giving these drugs? The detention barns really dont stop anything that is useful anyway. Vets just give the stuff that they would give with Lasix a little earlier and most of it is questionable in its effectivness anyway. The drugs of choice now are either given on a daily basis or are simply modified existing drugs that there are no tests for. The most effective drug of the last 20 years, EPO, is still being used in a modified form without markers. You dont need to give that anywhere near raceday.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a myth. If it were so then wouldn't it be fairly easy to catch guys giving these drugs? The detention barns really dont stop anything that is useful anyway. Vets just give the stuff that they would give with Lasix a little earlier and most of it is questionable in its effectivness anyway. The drugs of choice now are either given on a daily basis or are simply modified existing drugs that there are no tests for. The most effective drug of the last 20 years, EPO, is still being used in a modified form without markers. You dont need to give that anywhere near raceday.

i need some and mike maker had a breakthrough year because hes just good

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

i need some and mike maker had a breakthrough year because hes just good

stick to king crab

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

stick to king crab

lol

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

i need some and mike maker had a breakthrough year because hes just good

Yeah Mike Maker is Steph Beattie of the KY circuit.
Whats the difference between him and Kiaran McL? Except that K Mc is much better with firsters and MM is better with Turf runners they are basically the same trainer..But you never hear anyone calling the very likable KMc a CHEAT.

Hooves, stick to making your random picks.

Uh oh barking orders.