NFL Coaching Changes: Who Should, Who Should Go

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Let's see if they make the playoffs before you start patting yourself on the back.

You're right. That is still probably a less than 50-50 shot with the 3 East teams and the two in the north. and a lot of their success is a mirage with close wins over INdy and Jax on their resume plus playing the NFC West is pretty much a guarantee of 3-1 in those games. that's a huge plus when playing those teams comes around. for now I'll gloat!

[3kings]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

You're right. That is still probably a less than 50-50 shot with the 3 East teams and the two in the north. and a lot of their success is a mirage with close wins over INdy and Jax on their resume plus playing the NFC West is pretty much a guarantee of 3-1 in those games. that's a huge plus when playing those teams comes around. for now I'll gloat!

Aren't you one of our State Penn fans? Excuse me I mean Penn State. How are you feeling about that debacle and cover-up?

[Danzig]

i didn't realize psu was a catholic school.

it'll be a shame to see joe pa go out this way, but i expect him to leave with what's coming out. heads should roll, and they will-already have started rolling.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i didn't realize psu was a catholic school.

it'll be a shame to see joe pa go out this way, but i expect him to leave with what's coming out. heads should roll, and they will-already have started rolling.

This is really a mess. He should bite the bullet and step down. All these people involved in the cover-up are fathers themselves. Their lack of action is unfathomable.

[somerfrost]

This is terrible news, my first concern is for the victims. As a lifelong Penn State supporter I am heartbroken that such a thing could happen there and join the chorus of those demanding that the guilty parties be exposed and prosecuted. So far, it appears that Joe was not involved, he was approached by a graduate asst who allegedly witnessed an assault and Joe immediately reported same to his superior as the law dictates. The coverup apparently involves the AD and a university VP, both of whom will be charged tomarrow. We will see if there are more victims and more guilty parties, this story is probably just beginning.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 3kings

This is really a mess. He should bite the bullet and step down. All these people involved in the cover-up are fathers themselves. Their lack of action is unfathomable.

I can't imagine not reporting that stuff to the police. Joe Pa needs to step down immediately. They are all cowards.

And the pedophile, if guilty, should be shot.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

This is terrible news, my first concern is for the victims. As a lifelong Penn State supporter I am heartbroken that such a thing could happen there and join the chorus of those demanding that the guilty parties be exposed and prosecuted. So far, it appears that Joe was not involved, he was approached by a graduate asst who allegedly witnessed an assault and Joe immediately reported same to his superior as the law dictates. The coverup apparently involves the AD and a university VP, both of whom will be charged tomarrow. We will see if there are more victims and more guilty parties, this story is probably just beginning.

i dont think Joe Pa should be charged with a crime (the other two guys definatly should). But Joe Pa needs to resign regardless. He still knew and still didnt report it to the police.

And I dont understand how the Grad Assistant could witness such a thing and not break it up and call the cops on the spot. Too worried about his coaching future? screw him.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

i dont think Joe Pa should be charged with a crime (the other two guys definatly should). But Joe Pa needs to resign regardless. He still knew and still didnt report it to the police.

And I dont understand how the Grad Assistant could witness such a thing and not break it up and call the cops on the spot. Too worried about his coaching future? screw him.

Lot of questions that need to be answered, I'm not so quick to pass judgement as you but time will expose those who are guilty and those not.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

This is terrible news, my first concern is for the victims. As a lifelong Penn State supporter I am heartbroken that such a thing could happen there and join the chorus of those demanding that the guilty parties be exposed and prosecuted. So far, it appears that Joe was not involved, he was approached by a graduate asst who allegedly witnessed an assault and Joe immediately reported same to his superior as the law dictates. The coverup apparently involves the AD and a university VP, both of whom will be charged tomarrow. We will see if there are more victims and more guilty parties, this story is probably just beginning.

Really? If someone came to you and said one of your co-workers and friends for 30+ years was committing a sexual assault against a 10 year old boy in your office complex you would just tell the next person in charge? You wouldn't ask what was going on? He is not criminally guilty but he is so morally bankrupt and and his actions are beyond reprehensible.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Lot of questions that need to be answered, I'm not so quick to pass judgement as you but time will expose those who are guilty and those not.

have you read the grand jury indictment?

if you read that and still wont pass judgement, then I am very sorry for you.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Really? If someone came to you and said one of your co-workers and friends for 30+ years was committing a sexual assault against a 10 year old boy in your office complex you would just tell the next person in charge? You wouldn't ask what was going on? He is not criminally guilty but he is so morally bankrupt and and his actions are beyond reprehensible.

Had the same thought.




Nothing against State Penn, but just seems like an obvious thought.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

have you read the grand jury indictment?

if you read that and still wont pass judgement, then I am very sorry for you.

Yes I have...the questions still to be answered are exactly how this evolved. Certainly I would expect Joe to take immediate action and right now, it is unclear what exactly he did and what exactly he was told by the grad student. The state police conducted a long and thorough investigation which has thus far resulted in charges against one guy and soon to be filed charges against two more along with uncovering 8 victims (we all suspect there are more). Joe has thus far not been accused of criminal wrongdoing but the moral questions are many and must be answered. It is a rush to judgement to convict Joe of something not thus far supported by uncovered facts. The lid is off and if he has any role it will be uncovered and then I will stand with you demanding his resignation, but lets let the truth come out first.

[Danzig]

if something like that was reported to me, i'd move heaven and earth to make sure that everyone was contacted that should be contacted. that's not a can you kick down the road.
i've always been a psu fan, joe is the only coach i've ever known there-he's been coaching longer than i've been on this planet.
but having read what i've read...it's a shame his career will end like this, and i'd never thought i'd say so, but joe needs to retire. but then, who thought something like this would come out? it's a disgrace, a complete and utter disgrace. that child deserved more, let alone the school, the students, etc. that's what it comes down to, that poor boy and who knows who else. disgusting, reprehensible. there aren't words to describe how awful this is.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if something like that was reported to me, i'd move heaven and earth to make sure that everyone was contacted that should be contacted. that's not a can you kick down the road.
i've always been a psu fan, joe is the only coach i've ever known there-he's been coaching longer than i've been on this planet.
but having read what i've read...it's a shame his career will end like this, and i'd never thought i'd say so, but joe needs to retire. but then, who thought something like this would come out? it's a disgrace, a complete and utter disgrace. that child deserved more, let alone the school, the students, etc. that's what it comes down to, that poor boy and who knows who else. disgusting, reprehensible. there aren't words to describe how awful this is.

I agree with everything you say, the only question is exactly what did the grad student tell Joe? I think we need to know that before deciding the appropriateness of Joe's actions. This is a young man who was possibly feeling enormous pressure and we don't know as of yet how he presented things to Joe....was it a case of, "I'm not sure what I saw but I'm concerned" or did he forcefully present details?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

Yes I have...the questions still to be answered are exactly how this evolved. Certainly I would expect Joe to take immediate action and right now, it is unclear what exactly he did and what exactly he was told by the grad student. The state police conducted a long and thorough investigation which has thus far resulted in charges against one guy and soon to be filed charges against two more along with uncovering 8 victims (we all suspect there are more). Joe has thus far not been accused of criminal wrongdoing but the moral questions are many and must be answered. It is a rush to judgement to convict Joe of something not thus far supported by uncovered facts. The lid is off and if he has any role it will be uncovered and then I will stand with you demanding his resignation, but lets let the truth come out first.

from everything I've read so far, I dont think Joe did anything criminally wrong. In fact, he may have, at first, done the correct thing by telling the A.D. and those guys (how he didnt call the cops when he realized no one else had is beyond my comprehension). But just because he knew, and the whole program dropped the ball, he needs to resign.

[3kings]

Here is a link to the Grand Jury indictment:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/13...mpid=125219969

Edit: It is very disturbing I didn't even make it through Victim 1.

[DerbyCat]

As someone who works in a DI athletic department, I have to tell you that the administrators response doesn't surprise me in the least, although I would have expected better from someone who I thought was as classy as Joe Pa. DI coaches, especially football and basketball coaches, aren't expected to worry about anything but winning. I'm sure the AD told coach, "don't worry, we'll take care of it". The AD doesn't want ANY bad press about his department so he'll get his boss to sign off on burying this story and *hope* that it doesn't happen again on campus. I'm not surprised that the grad assistant and janitors didn't want to call police, no one wants to be the person to speak up in that situation because the fear is always there that you will lose your job and be black-balled. It is really hard to "do the right thing" if it can damage the reputation of a program - people think they'll be brought down as collateral damage.

I had an issue with our basketball program and while discussing it with an administrator I was told, "we're not going to bother coach with that, he just needs to worry about winning". Seriously? What ever happened to doing the right thing? College athletics is a business, ends justify the means.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

As someone who works in a DI athletic department, I have to tell you that the administrators response doesn't surprise me in the least, although I would have expected better from someone who I thought was as classy as Joe Pa. DI coaches, especially football and basketball coaches, aren't expected to worry about anything but winning. I'm sure the AD told coach, "don't worry, we'll take care of it". The AD doesn't want ANY bad press about his department so he'll get his boss to sign off on burying this story and *hope* that it doesn't happen again on campus. I'm not surprised that the grad assistant and janitors didn't want to call police, no one wants to be the person to speak up in that situation because the fear is always there that you will lose your job and be black-balled. It is really hard to "do the right thing" if it can damage the reputation of a program - people think they'll be brought down as collateral damage.

I had an issue with our basketball program and while discussing it with an administrator I was told, "we're not going to bother coach with that, he just needs to worry about winning". Seriously? What ever happened to doing the right thing? College athletics is a business, ends justify the means.

I'm proud of you baby.....don't punish me anymore by being a stranger.






OOOOOOOOOO

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Aren't you one of our State Penn fans? Excuse me I mean Penn State. How are you feeling about that debacle and cover-up?

It's the biggest disgrace in the history of college sports. Everyone should be gone starting with Paterno. I'm actually an alumnus of the school. I'm extremely embarrased as I loved the team and was a big fan of Paterno. I believe he knew something as early as the late 90s which was a big part of driving Sandusky out, and once Mcquery saw what he saw for Paterno and Curley and all of them to let that ass go is a disgrace to humanity. For anyone who has ever had kids to let this go as Paterno did and the school president and athletic director is horrid. I guess criminally Joe did nothing wrong, but the whole thing as someone who went there creeps me out to the extreme. The 2nd mile program was heavily promoted and lots of charity events going to it and now knowing it was a front for Sandusky's criminality is horrifying to me. I'm embarrased to be associated with the school. It's simply another in a long list in history of the coverup being as bad as the crime...in this case it is. Penn State copied the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy of just moving the criminal along and doing absolutley nothing simply to protect some crappy legend or something and children become a silly little distraction way, way down on the list. I certainly don't think Joe knew for the majority of Sandusky's tenure, but toward the end it appeared lots of crap was coming out and they absolutely knew which is why Sandusky "resigned"....I think McQueary became part of the firm and wanted to remain part of the firm forever. He's the one on the staff who actually saw it happen. the corporation rules and protecting it is first and foremost. Idiots. Just another example of the ruthlessness of our country and what it has become. the corporation is first and foremost the priority. Individual persons are simply crap. that is how Penn State viewed those minor children, not nearly as important as the corporation. citizen's United baby...that is the country we live in and this Penn State crap is all interelated with all that stuff. IF you have power in this country you can get away with absolutely anything at all. Joe Paterno will be in the press box Saturday. Book it and that's a shame. Dick Cheney will be smiling venom on some TV show selling books, and when his treachery is done Barack Obama will be pulling in a million per speech. Some dimwit selling weed on the street will go to prison. Cool.

[clyde]

Bully for you...you said many right things.



But your place is tarnished, in the sense of any tortish thing, just as any school is.Some just haven't been caught.We here at Ohio State enjoy lying to keep getting new contracts worth millions if we make our fans giddy with happiness.The ncaa enjoys raking it in for big schools,but they must keep the facade of righteousness alive.



Humans,on the whole, are fundamentally flawed...some more so than others.It's the latter who really make it tough on their victims.Your analogy to the Catholic church is admirable.



God losses many points in this one; for many reasons.