Kentucky's ongoing attempt to end racing in state proceeds..

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So all those diabetics that give themselves shots are druggies because they use a needle to treat their disease? Lasix comes in many forms including pills, would it make you feel better if we gave them pills? What difference does it make what delivery system you are using? We give electrolytes and fluids to horses using catheters and no one is against them.

Refusing to acknowledge that lasix is a preventative measure clouds your entire argument.

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Excuse me. Nonsense. I have pointed out repeatedly to you on this thread that research shows that an average of 93% of race horses have evidence of microscopic bleeding in their lungs. Stop blinding ignoring that and saying differently.

93 is not 99, and microscopic bleeding does not necessarily need to be treated with drugs...but you know that already. Why do those that don't need it get the drug?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

On the track, horses don't get approved for lasix use until a vet documents a bleeding episode via endoscopy.

Now that is funny.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Well, it's hard to argue against your made up, imaginary guesses when you pretend they are fact.

Does it really matter whether it is 1%, 2%, 5% or 6%? It is a very small number. Do you dispute that?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

Maybe not the day of the race but for sure day of the game. If you dont think humans are cortizoned and or blocked to play pro sports you havent been paying attention. Last year Ben Rothelisberger was blocked to play a playoff game and when it was delayed the sportscasters were even commenting about his pre-game injection wearing off too soon.
I will tell you we are experimenting with working some horses in our barn without lasix and scoping after to see if they are bleeding. I think that the reason is because my boss can see the writing on the wall, people who are not really involved on a daily basis with these athletes are going to try and dictate what can and cannot be done in regards to the well being of racers.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

Maybe not the day of the race but for sure day of the game. If you dont think humans are cortizoned and or blocked to play pro sports you havent been paying attention. Last year Ben Rothelisberger was blocked to play a playoff game and when it was delayed the sportscasters were even commenting about his pre-game injection wearing off too soon.
I will tell you we are experimenting with working some horses in our barn without lasix and scoping after to see if they are bleeding. I think that the reason is because my boss can see the writing on the wall, people who are not really involved on a daily basis with these athletes are going to try and dictate what can and cannot be done in regards to the well being of racers.

For about the hundredth time, nobody says there are no drugs in sports. However, there are no sports where virtually ALL participant gets drugs on the day of the event.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

For about the hundredth time, nobody says there are no drugs in sports. However, there are no sports where virtually ALL participant gets drugs on the day of the event.

And you dont know that ....how could you? Are you in every locker room? Are you at every dog race? You dont know if athletes are taking 4 to 6 advil before they compete in every event. You dont know if they are hitting an over the counter inhaler to open up their lungs. Believe me if you dont think that pro athletes competing for their salaries arent making sure they do everything to make sure their performance is the best it can be then you surley believe all politicans care about you.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

And you dont know that ....how could you? Are you in every locker room? Are you at every dog race? You dont know if athletes are taking 4 to 6 advil before they compete in every event. You dont know if they are hitting an over the counter inhaler to open up their lungs. Believe me if you dont think that pro athletes competing for their salaries arent making sure they do everything to make sure their performance is the best it can be then you surley believe all politicans care about you.

Yes, I do know it. Another being completely over the top to try to defend something that really can't be defended.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

How are diabetics and horses that are given drugs to compete for millions and millions of dollars remotely comparable. That is just being ridiculous. Stick to sports, because after all, isn't that what horse racing is?

Again, in what other sport, anywhere, is nearly every competitor given drugs on the day of the race?

You complained about needles, just pointing out millions of people arent so concerned about the use of a needle. Again what other sport reports anything that a participant is given?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You complained about needles, just pointing out millions of people arent so concerned about the use of a needle. Again what other sport reports anything that a participant is given?

What other sport directly makes money from gambling?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

93 is not 99, and microscopic bleeding does not necessarily need to be treated with drugs...but you know that already.

No. Lasix has been definitively proven to attenuate the extent and severity of exercise-induced pulmonary hemorrhage. Which is why the medical world advises it's use as a race day therapeutic medication, for the health and welfare of the horse.

Insistence upon holding opinion left over from the 1950's, and pretending it's fact, in the face of 2012 medical evidence to the contrary, is really beyond comprehension. It's helping to ruin American racing today.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Does it really matter whether it is 1%, 2%, 5% or 6%? It is a very small number. Do you dispute that?

Yes, I do. You made that number up out of thin air and you have absolutely zero support for it. The truth is the majority of trainers use lasix in the morning, on days the horse will be asked for maximum speed, to prevent EIPH. It's common, it's good medical welfare of the horse practice, and it's why, during drug tests in some foreign countries, a far lower level of frusemide is permitted in the blood, than exists in the USA.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.nytha.com/pdf/the_lasix_question.pdf


interesting point regarding witholding hay and water for 24-48 hours before racing.

Nice way to induce impaction colic (remove hay from the diet)

That's a great reference telling the truth about lasix, I would recommend that those interested here read it. Thanks for posting that link.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

What other sport directly makes money from gambling?

So all analogies to other sports are going to be off limits because of betting? It is an imperfect world in which we live in. Unfortunately there is no way to satisfy everyone and sometimes in trying to satisfy some of the people some of the time the unintended consequences prove fatal.

[cmorioles]

Isn't that the only reason the information is provided? No worries, I'm done with this. After reading the NYT and the work of some of your cohorts, you have much bigger issues than losing Lasix.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yes, I do know it. Another being completely over the top to try to defend something that really can't be defended.

You dont know it. You dont know what pro athletes take or dont take that is legal before they compete. Gambling on horses is no different than gambling on football or basketball at a sports book, and believe me you really think the coaches disclose what players had an injection prior to game time or who had a cortizone shot 5 days ago. Dude you really just dont know.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

You dont know it. You dont know what pro athletes take or dont take that is legal before they compete. Gambling on horses is no different than gambling on football or basketball at a sports book, and believe me you really think the coaches disclose what players had an injection prior to game time or who had a cortizone shot 5 days ago. Dude you really just dont know.

And how exactly would you know what I know?

Even if I didn't, just for fun, I also know that 99% don't get drugs or injections before competing, even in football.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

And how exactly would you know what I know?

Even if I didn't, just for fun, I also know that 99% don't get drugs or injections before competing, even in football.

Oh really? Then tell me what the sportscasters were talking about when they said Big Ben had an injection before the game and now that the lights keep going out we wonder how his ankle is going to be feeling with the delay of game? How about Grant Hills torn minicus, that is a pretty painful injury but yet he played in a game a week later. Whatever... you choose to believe what you want and I choose to believe what is written and talked about in pro sports. They get hopped and blocked and people bet on the games that is a fact.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Honu

Oh really? Then tell me what the sportscasters were talking about when they said Big Ben had an injection before the game and now that the lights keep going out we wonder how his ankle is going to be feeling with the delay of game? How about Grant Hills torn minicus, that is a pretty painful injury but yet he played in a game a week later. Whatever... you choose to believe what you want and I choose to believe what is written and talked about in pro sports. They get hopped and blocked and people bet on the games that is a fact.

Wow, do you read, or just rant first? I NEVER said no athletes use drugs to compete, EVER. I said 99% don't like they do in US racing.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Wow, do you read, or just rant first? I NEVER said no athletes use drugs to compete, EVER. I said 99% don't like they do in US racing.

Im not ranting, Im just pointing out the obvious.....Those are just the one's off the top of my head. If you think pro athletes dont down 800mlg of Advil and use over the counter blocks and injections before competeting and I would say the number is close to about 80 % of them DO....you havent played sports. It hurts to compete at a pro level even if you dont suffer a major injury during a game you are damn sure going to be sore the next day and if its a game day Im sure they are taking more than Advil.
I think racing can do away with all medications 72 hours out and there wont be a large impact, but to do away with a drug that by all scientific study is proven to be preventitive in helping horses not cause damage to their lungs is just beyond simply stupid.
Ever notice the number of horses that come here to run in the breeders cup from across the pond that use Lasix? Ever ask yourself why they use it ? they use it because they know it prevents bleeding. Over there they work on it but they know it has to be out of the horses system for the race. Just like Dubai, you can work on Lasix up until about 10 days from racing, then you have to go old school by withdrawing grain, hay and water. So which is more humane?