Change of Plans for Lava Man

[Round Pen]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The story I was told, by somone I trust a lot, years ago, was that Cigar's problem before his incredible turnaround was that he had ulcers.
I've heard that Dr. ALlday treated him for ulcers and that was when he transformed.
Ulcers are now treated regularly. Actually most good trainers will use Gastroguard to perevent them from occurring in the first place these days.
But back then very few people understood the impact that ulcers had on a horses disposition and performance. Made it hard to keep weight on them as well.

You are 100% Correct about Cigar. Only thing I thought that was a little different I was always under the Impression that Dr. Jerry Johnson treated him buy I quess they both could have

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

No need to discredit the great race record of Cigar. Cigar always looked like a good horse when he was in California, he just developed late. I remember him going into the gate for the Pimlico special with MaCarron up. Cigar caught my eye that day, he had good body weight(alittle belly on him) and the walk of a fit horse. The rest is history. Just my take on watching from the paddock.

Who was discrediting him? He simply was a better dirt horse than turf horse by a great deal. Are you disputing that? He didn't " just develop late ". If you actually look at his race record, not only would you know that McCarron did NOT ride him in the Pimlico Special, but you would also know that he ran MANY lengths faster on the dirt just weeks after his mediocre ( at best ) turf efforts.

Here's an idea....read what people post and throw your f'n agenda out the window. This kind of garbage is getting more than a little tiresome.

Originally Posted by Round Pen

You are 100% Correct about Cigar. Only thing I thought that was a little different I was always under the Impression that Dr. Jerry Johnson treated him buy I quess they both could have

Pen you could be correct, but I was told that at the time Paulson hired Allday to work on his horses.
Steve gets a ton of flak from everyone but as I know several owners and trainers who use him, I've been told by all that he is the finest vet they ever saw. He was way ahead of his time in treating ulcers, and treated a friend of mines horse who became a grade one winner(he had already won a grade 3, but his form tailed off to the point that they thought he was totally done).

He also specializes in treating hind end problems and getting them straightened out. As you must know, they get all their power from the back end, and if they are sore or hurting back there they not only can't push off properly but get sour and won't even try.

[Round Pen]

Yes Allday is a good vet he actually does a little of our work from time to time.

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Yes Allday is a good vet he actually does a little of our work from time to time.

Then you are in great shape!!!

Originally Posted by Round Pen

Yes Allday is a good vet he actually does a little of our work from time to time.

Pen could you ask him about the Cigar thing the next time you see him and find out?

[The Bid]

He is the best vet in the business. Hes not just a needleman, hes a lameness vet, and aggressive when getting a horse ready for a race. You cannot beat him

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The story I was told, by somone I trust a lot, years ago, was that Cigar's problem before his incredible turnaround was that he had ulcers.
I've heard that Dr. ALlday treated him for ulcers and that was when he transformed.
Ulcers are now treated regularly. Actually most good trainers will use Gastroguard to perevent them from occurring in the first place these days.
But back then very few people understood the impact that ulcers had on a horses disposition and performance. Made it hard to keep weight on them as well.

Didn't know that, despite being a Cigar fan. Thanks for the info.

--Dunbar

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

The story I was told, by somone I trust a lot, years ago, was that Cigar's problem before his incredible turnaround was that he had ulcers.
I've heard that Dr. ALlday treated him for ulcers and that was when he transformed.
Ulcers are now treated regularly. Actually most good trainers will use Gastroguard to perevent them from occurring in the first place these days.
But back then very few people understood the impact that ulcers had on a horses disposition and performance. Made it hard to keep weight on them as well.

That would make sense to me. I couldn't believe that it was the switch to the dirt alone.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Who was discrediting him? He simply was a better dirt horse than turf horse by a great deal. Are you disputing that? He didn't " just develop late ". If you actually look at his race record, not only would you know that McCarron did NOT ride him in the Pimlico Special, but you would also know that he ran MANY lengths faster on the dirt just weeks after his mediocre ( at best ) turf efforts.

Here's an idea....read what people post and throw your agenda out the window. This kind of garbage is getting more than a little tiresome.

The comment was from memory. Not all of us has to be perfectly right all the time. Life must be pretty dull to have the racing form for wall paper.

Cigar had alot of different jocks and I guess I made a mistake.

You were the one that brought up the cheating and Cigar.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

The comment was from memory. Not all of us has to be perfectly right all the time. Life must be pretty dull to have the racing form for wall paper.

Cigar had alot of different jocks and I guess I made a mistake.

You were the one that brought up the cheating and Cigar.

Let's find the truth in any of your posts.....

Still searching.

You corrected me, unprovoked, by providing incorrect information. When this was pointed out you have now chosen to respond by attempting to further insult me. But, you didn't stop there, you also claim that I " brought up the cheating and Cigar " which, of course, I didn't do.

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

The comment was from memory. Not all of us has to be perfectly right all the time. Life must be pretty dull to have the racing form for wall paper.

Cigar had alot of different jocks and I guess I made a mistake.

You were the one that brought up the cheating and Cigar.

Here's an Idea....don't act like Blocky.

I am confused. I thought Jerry Bailey was Cigar's jockey on dirt. Was there anyone else? Once on dirt, he did not have a lot of jockeys.

[Gander]

Yes, Mike Smith rode him at least once, did he not?

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes, Mike Smith rode him at least once, did he not?

I know that once he won the NYRA Mile, Bailey was his jockey. Aren't you thinking of Skip Away in the BC in California; Bailey was committed to Behrens that day.

[Gander]

Yes I was thinking of his nemesis Skip Away, who beat Cigar in the Jockey Club. One of my very favorite horses of all time. Right up their with Gander, Butterface and Arromanches.

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes I was thinking of his nemesis Skip Away, who beat Cigar in the Jockey Club. One of my very favorite horses of all time. Right up their with Gander, Butterface and Arromanches.

I followed Skippy on his exploits through New Jersey and New York. I adore him. He is my second favorite of all-time behind Slew.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Gander

Yes I was thinking of his nemesis Skip Away, who beat Cigar in the Jockey Club. One of my very favorite horses of all time. Right up their with Gander, Butterface and Arromanches.

I made a pilgrimage to see that race. Besides wanting to see Cigar myself, I wanted my 4-yr-old son to be able to say he saw both horses. It was cool watching Cigar and Skip Away parade around in the paddock area. Not many sports where you can get so close to the superstars.

--Dunbar

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Cigar ran a Beyer fig around 95 in his second career start, at 6F on the dirt, after running poorly in his debut 2 1/2 months earlier ( his debut was at SA and maiden victory was at Hollywood ). He never raced again on the dirt until the allowance at Aqueduct that began the streak. He ran some OK California grass races, a bit better than his east coast efforts, but ultimately he was a dirt horse...that's all.

Not sure what you are suggesting with your post. His dirt win at Aqueduct was only three weeks after his final turf start. Are you suggesting they were cheating?

I guess someone else wrote, Are you suggesting they were cheating?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

I guess someone else wrote, Are you suggesting they were cheating?

My question was clearly in response to a comment by another poster, who responded to me, and only someone looking for trouble would even attempt to make the claims that you did.

And furthermore, you butted in looking for a fight and then wrote more incorrect information, which I can now see from this series of posts by you is your MO.

Originally Posted by Bold Reasoning

I am confused. I thought Jerry Bailey was Cigar's jockey on dirt. Was there anyone else? Once on dirt, he did not have a lot of jockeys.

Ok, look. Mike Smith rode him in his crushing win in the allowance race. His agent at the time, Steve Adika, chose to ride Devil His Due in the at the time NYRA Mile. In his defense, he was also riding Holy Bull who was coming back at age 4 to race. Bailey and Frieze got the mount and he rode him every race the rest of his career.