Rachel Alexandra to Woodward

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

i agree with some of this but not the kensai part. i think that horse has been pointing for the travers. rachel on the other hand, i don't think they are in a hurry to run her one mile and a quarter verses the boys. i know i'll take crap for this. but she may have distance limits. i went to the preakness and i saw a tired horse at 1 and 3/16. and if you heard borel talk you know she was tired. notice how they keep going for a mile and a eigth probably her best distance. if she ever gets beat it will probably be at the classic distance. its just my opinion and a hunch but i don't think he wants this horse to lose at all and the woodward is an easier spot for rachel.

If he wanted an easy spot he'd run in the Personal Ensign. In my opinion he's looking for the biggest challenge and what would do the most for his horses' legacy. As fans, we are lucky that she is owned by someone with enough guts to throw his young filly in a race against anyone. I doubt there would be many owners out there willing to run her in the Woodward. This may be once and a lifetime stuff for us (well people my age who werent around for Ruffian/Go For Wand, etc). Owners duck competition these days, she runs in the top races in open competition where anyone could show up to face her.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Of the top 25 race horses of all time: 12 have run in the Woodward, 6 have run in the Travers. That is despite the Woodward never being run until 1954.

thats the line or spin they will sell. but it comes down to distance. i'll bet on it. they don't want a mile and quarter up here verses the boys. if the travers were a mile and eighth she would be in. face it, she romps at that distance and probably is the best. her only tough race this year was 1 and 3/16. believe me they are shrewd enough to know her comfort zone. i agree though it is great that she'll run in a race like this.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I personally think that beating older horses on September 5th of her 3yo year in Saratoga adds a whole lot more to her "legacy" than beating colts for the 3rd time. She's already won the Preakness and the Haskell.. she has nothing more to prove in her age group. She's trying to do something that has never been done in the history of racing.

Also, I might get crap for this.. but we really have no idea how the 3yo colts stack up against the older horses. There are no names that stick out regarding the older horses.. but how good is Mine That Bird & Summer Bird really?? I wouldnt bet on them in the Woodward against older horses.. Quality Road is the dark horse, but we really wont have any questions answered about him until after the Travers.. I also wouldnt bet on him in the Woodward. Just because the names are more interesting doesnt mean the 3yo colts are better than the older horses, that remains to be seen. The older horses are crappy compared to years past, but they still may be equal/better than the 3yo's.

The Woodward is a much more difficult spot to run a 3yo filly than the Travers. It takes a lot more "balls" for lack of a better word than to run her against 3yo colts again.. all of whom (besides QR) she has blown away already. The only reason it may be a better spot for her than the Travers is she may be suited better for 1 1/8th than 1 1/4th.

I'm 99% confident she would win the Travers the same way she won the Haskell. The Woodward will be a much bigger accomplishment IF she wins..

I understand your reasoning however historically things are starting to change in regards to horseracing in general, we simply do not see quality horses campaign into years 4 or 5 anymore, there is much more emphasis being placed on breeding that the best races often seem to be the 3 yr old series of races. Gone are the days of The Cigar's, Forego's ect...For me personally a Travers win in 09 far outweighs a win in the Woodward. I don't think even the intermediate horseracing fan would have heard of Bullsbay prior to his win in the Whitney nevermind the novice. On the other hand even the novice's know who wins the derby.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by CSC

Because it is historically one of the top Grade 1's for older horses does not necessarily improve her 'legacy' Jess's words not mine... than if she won the Travers this year. I don't think any intelligent follower of the game would say the better field belongs to Woodward this year. While on the other hand you could have the 3 triple crown winners facing off with not to mention a field with depth horses.

I don't agree with you on the reasoning why she is racing in the Woodward but I do agree with you on her winning the Traver's against this field is more impressive then winning against the field that is being assembled in the Woodward.

I think the whole The Traver's would have a Triple Crown like atomosphere, more so than usual, especially with a national TV coverage. having all three triple crown winner's, Florida Derby Winner and former KY Derby pre race favorite all entering the starting gate.

It would have been a major Spectacle.

Traver's is still going to be a fantastic race but if RA was there, with this deep field it would have Ky Derby feel to it.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

If he wanted an easy spot he'd run in the Personal Ensign. In my opinion he's looking for the biggest challenge and what would do the most for his horses' legacy. As fans, we are lucky that she is owned by someone with enough guts to throw his young filly in a race against anyone. I doubt there would be many owners out there willing to run her in the Woodward. This may be once and a lifetime stuff for us (well people my age who werent around for Ruffian/Go For Wand, etc). Owners duck competition these days, she runs in the top races in open competition where anyone could show up to face her.

I'm willing to concede that, from a historical perspective, Rachel winning the Woodward would be more historically significant. However, there's also no doubt in my mind that 10F in the Travers, given the likely field, would be a more demanding race for her than 9F in the Woodward against the likes of Cool Coal Man, Asiatic Boy and Macho Again. That being said, trying to get into Jess Jackson's mind as to why he chose the Woodward over the Travers is only pointless speculation.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Is this really the smartest thing to do with a 3yo filly ... throw her in there with a bunch of mature males?


Which was the last 3yo filly to take on older males?



Seems to me that the risk of injury could be magnified by asking her to compete with stronger, more mature animals...

They are running, not fighting

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

thats the line or spin they will sell. but it comes down to distance. i'll bet on it. they don't want a mile and quarter up here verses the boys. if the travers were a mile and eighth she would be in. face it, she romps at that distance and probably is the best. her only tough race this year was 1 and 3/16. believe me they are shrewd enough to know her comfort zone. i agree though it is great that she'll run in a race like this.

It has nothing to do with the distance, it has everything to do with Kensei. She could still do 10 furlongs in the Jockey Club Gold Cup if they wanted to.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They are running, not fighting

I'd take her in a fight too.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think it is pretty simple. Kensei is training well and with wins in the Dwyer, Dandy, and Travers will have a shot at champion 3yo male especially beating Quality Road and Mine that Bird head to head. Winning the Woodward with Kensei wouldn't have helped him in that regard.

Him winning the Woodward with RA winning the Travers wouldn't help him be three year old of the year? Perhaps if one of those other horses were to defeat her it would raise their stature but their is no way that Jackson believes she will lose to anyone, right or wrong.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cakes44

I see what you are saying CSC, but I think Travers winner on a stallion register probably does a bit more for the horse's stud value than winning the Woodward because of the whole 3-year-old success thing. I could be wrong.

Not really a difference

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

He's running his 3yo filly in a historically top Grade 1 race for older horses (which a female horse of any age has never won) and he's being a chicken?!!?

I second Indian Charlie's post..

This wont be a historical version outside of RA's participation. Embarrassing would be a better description. But I dont think he is being Chicken, I think he thinks he will win both races.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

trying to get into Jess Jackson's mind as to why he chose the Woodward over the Travers is only pointless speculation.

I don't think it's pointless to question motives, we had enough of that with the 'Cheney' Administration.

I don't think anyone should be taken as the gospel, someone in the industry should have asked these questions. We are not talking 60 mins type of journalism just logical, honest questions.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Him winning the Woodward with RA winning the Travers wouldn't help him be three year old of the year? Perhaps if one of those other horses were to defeat her it would raise their stature but their is no way that Jackson believes she will lose to anyone, right or wrong.

I think the head to head win over both Quality Road and Mine that Bird is far more important than which race he wins.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

And he's running her in a race that Zenyatta is free to enter. But he's the chicken.

Well maybe if he didnt take a month to figure out where he will run they could call her out but making the decision now not only prevents that from happening but causes the Travers to lose luster the week it is held.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Of the top 25 race horses of all time: 12 have run in the Woodward, 6 have run in the Travers. That is despite the Woodward never being run until 1954.

What exactly does this have to do with anything?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well maybe if he didnt take a month to figure out where he will run they could call her out but making the decision now not only prevents that from happening but causes the Travers to lose luster the week it is held.

If Mine that Bird shows up the Travers will be just fine. This would only be the second time since Thunder Gulch that the Derby winner has made it to the starting gate for the Travers. Throw in the Belmont winner, the Dandy winner, and Quality Road and it is still one of the better Travers in recent years even without Rachel.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I personally think that beating older horses on September 5th of her 3yo year in Saratoga adds a whole lot more to her "legacy" than beating colts for the 3rd time. She's already won the Preakness and the Haskell.. she has nothing more to prove in her age group. She's trying to do something that has never been done in the history of racing.

Also, I might get crap for this.. but we really have no idea how the 3yo colts stack up against the older horses. There are no names that stick out regarding the older horses.. but how good is Mine That Bird & Summer Bird really?? I wouldnt bet on them in the Woodward against older horses.. Quality Road is the dark horse, but we really wont have any questions answered about him until after the Travers.. I also wouldnt bet on him in the Woodward. Just because the names are more interesting doesnt mean the 3yo colts are better than the older horses, that remains to be seen. The older horses are crappy compared to years past, but they still may be equal/better than the 3yo's.

The Woodward is a much more difficult spot to run a 3yo filly than the Travers. It takes a lot more "balls" for lack of a better word than to run her against 3yo colts again.. all of whom (besides QR) she has blown away already. The only reason it may be a better spot for her than the Travers is she may be suited better for 1 1/8th than 1 1/4th.

I'm 99% confident she would win the Travers the same way she won the Haskell. The Woodward will be a much bigger accomplishment IF she wins..

Your argument would hold more sway if you actually named the older horses that she will face without breaking out into hysterical laughter....

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

If Mine that Bird shows up the Travers will be just fine. This would only be the second time since Thunder Gulch that the Derby winner has made it to the starting gate for the Travers. Throw in the Belmont winner, the Dandy winner, and Quality Road and it is still one of the better Travers in recent years even without Rachel.

Are you kidding me, MTB? The Travers is no where close to being as interesting without RA in it!

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by CSC

I don't think it's pointless to question motives, we had enough of that with the 'Cheney' Administration.

I don't think anyone should be taken as the gospel, someone in the industry should have asked these questions. We are not talking 60 mins type of journalism just logical, honest questions.

Alright, it just speculation. But this is about what race Rachel is going to run in; it's not a matter of life and death.

As to whether we need to interrogate him about it, I'm not convinced that the reasons he has stated are the real reasons he's opted for the Woodward, but unless you think he's going to publicly state "I opted for the Woodward because I'm afraid of the distance and the colts competing in the Travers," what's the point of trying to get into his head.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It has nothing to do with the distance, it has everything to do with Kensei. She could still do 10 furlongs in the Jockey Club Gold Cup if they wanted to.

i disagree. she might not run in the jockey club gold cup either and if she does that will be the race i bet against her. just as others have posted the travers field is very deep this year. anyone that thinks she would have a "walk in the park" against that field at that distance is nuts. of course the woodward is easier, its shorter and God knows whats going to enter! QR would give her a good run early and hes never been the distance so the race with her in it had the potential fall apart late. with QR in there it still could, if he goes guns blazing early. shes a great horse no doubt. but i'm saying if and when she does lose, i'm willing to bet it will be at the classic distance. we will see if she shows up later to do it. i do feel hes taking the easier path at saratoga.