Dutrow running one off 2 days rest - Page 6

Danzig · #**101** 07-02-2008, 03:50 PM

well, trainers are supposed to know when a horse is ready to go. a quick turnaround on its own may raise eyebrows, but isn't necessarily a reason to call peta--but if dutrow had indications that the horse shouldn't run, and ran him anway hoping for a claim--well, then he deserves all the grief he can get.

dalakhani · #**102** 07-02-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, trainers are supposed to know when a horse is ready to go. a quick turnaround on its own may raise eyebrows, but isn't necessarily a reason to call peta--but if dutrow had indications that the horse shouldn't run, and ran him anway hoping for a claim--well, then he deserves all the grief he can get.

Exactly!

dalakhani · #**103** 07-02-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

we're talking about a two day turnaround with cheap horses, and you give an example of a top horse that ran back in four days.

how do you know for sure when the horse is ready to go? what is the limit? can they come back the next day? later in the same card? I'm sure some horses could do it, the question is aren't you inviting trouble and exposing them to increased risk at some point?

Your points are valid. I just dont think in this age of treating horses like china dolls we should complain about trainers actually wanting to run their horses.

And what does the fact that the horse is "cheap" have to do with his his soundness. Are cheap horses more or less likely to sustain injury on a quick turnaround?

my miss storm cat · #**104** 07-02-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

This is heresay, and from the FOB forum, so take it with a whole shaker of salt.

Can anyone verify it?

http://forums.prospero.com/alexbrown...s?msg=25843.49

Found this.

Too bad...

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/du...se-euthanized/

RolloTomasi · #**105** 07-02-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And what does the fact that the horse is "cheap" have to do with his his soundness.

In some cases, a lot. Unrequited, for example, was a well-meant horse (he was owned by the nationally prominent Jay Em Ess Stable) from the outset, making his debut in 2005 in a maiden special at Del Mar for Ron Ellis. After that race, he was gone for over 6 months before resurfacing at Hollywood and winning a maiden special weight at Hollywood. Despite lining up against future stakes horses such as Sailor's Sunset, he ultimately began dipping into mid-level claiming ranks with some success in 2007 in CA before disappearing again, this time for over a year. He finally resurfaced with the stable's East Coast trainer, Dutrow, who ran him a few times before his fatal injury.

When you consider the fact that this horse had two long layoffs during his career and was steadily dropping in value (where once he butted heads with stakes-calibur horses), certainly, even on paper alone, his soundness (in general--not necessarily at Monmouth on raceday) had to be questioned.

dalakhani · #**106** 07-02-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

In some cases, a lot. Unrequited, for example, was a well-meant horse (he was owned by the nationally prominent Jay Em Ess Stable) from the outset, making his debut in 2005 in a maiden special at Del Mar for Ron Ellis. After that race, he was gone for over 6 months before resurfacing at Hollywood and winning a maiden special weight at Hollywood. Despite lining up against future stakes horses such as Sailor's Sunset, he ultimately began dipping into mid-level claiming ranks with some success in 2007 in CA before disappearing again, this time for over a year. He finally resurfaced with the stable's East Coast trainer, Dutrow, who ran him a few times before his fatal injury.

When you consider the fact that this horse had two long layoffs during his career and was steadily dropping in value (where once he butted heads with stakes-calibur horses), certainly, even on paper alone, his soundness (in general--not necessarily at Monmouth on raceday) had to be questioned.

I hear what you are saying. And again, my point was never to defend Dutrow with this particular horse. I dont know enough about the situation to speak to it one way or another.

My point was more in that there are horses that can run back really fast and some of them are stake horses and some of them are cheap. Its the trainer's job to know which ones can and cant.

Obviously, in this situation, Dutrow was wrong in thinking the horse could do it.

blackthroatedwind · #**107** 07-02-2008, 09:40 PM

Dutrow ran The Cuban Hawk in today's 7th race, going 1 1/16th on the turf, off an 11 month layoff. He finished a credible third. He is entered, at 6F on the turf, in Friday's 9th race.

cowgirlintexas · #**108** 07-02-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Dutrow ran The Cuban Hawk in today's 7th race, going 1 1/16th on the turf, off an 11 month layoff. He finished a credible third. He is entered, at 6F on the turf, in Friday's 9th race.

Surely he was cross entered and will scratch... Surely...

blackthroatedwind · #**109** 07-02-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

Surely he was cross entered and will scratch... Surely...

He knew he was running in today's 7th when he entered for Friday.

Not to be picky, but this would not be the correct situation to use the term " cross entered. "

cowgirlintexas · #**110** 07-02-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He knew he was running in today's 7th when he entered for Friday.

Not to be picky, but this would not be the correct situation to use the term " cross entered. "

Cross entered is only on the same day? Thanks for the clarification.

Hope the horse doesn't run Friday after what happened last week. Has he totally lost his mind?!! How much more bad publicity does he want drawn to him?? Unreal!!

ArlJim78 · #**111** 07-02-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

Cross entered is only on the same day? Thanks for the clarification.

Hope the horse doesn't run Friday after what happened last week. Has he totally lost his mind?!! How much more bad publicity does he want drawn to him?? Unreal!!

he's done pretty well with the 3-5 day comebacks.

tiggerv · #**112** 07-02-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Dutrow ran The Cuban Hawk in today's 7th race, going 1 1/16th on the turf, off an 11 month layoff. He finished a credible third. He is entered, at 6F on the turf, in Friday's 9th race.

I guess he couldn't find a race on Thursday.

cowgirlintexas · #**113** 07-02-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

he's done pretty well with the 3-5 day comebacks.

I was'nt aware of that.. Kind of a throw back to the old days of training. I know trotters run that way, but I just figured he would want to "lay low" for awhile instead of pushing the envelope. Has this horse run back before on 2 days rest?

ArlJim78 · #**114** 07-02-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

Has this horse run back before on 2 days rest?

No, but its not a sure thing that he goes on Friday either.

docicu3 · #**115** 07-02-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

He knew he was running in today's 7th when he entered for Friday.

Not to be picky, but this would not be the correct situation to use the term " cross entered. "

Has there ever been a case of a horse actually running two races in a day.

Is there a rule against such lunacy or is it possible for a trainer to "pull up" a horse early in a race and then race on the same night at a nearby track.

parsixfarms · #**116** 07-03-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docicu3

Has there ever been a case of a horse actually running two races in a day.

Is there a rule against such lunacy or is it possible for a trainer to "pull up" a horse early in a race and then race on the same night at a nearby track.

Earlier in this thread we discussed how Dutrow did it with Golden Man, in consecutive stakes, on consecutive days at Monmouth and Delaware, a few years ago.

parsixfarms · #**117** 07-03-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiggerv

I guess he couldn't find a race on Thursday.

Oscar could have.

Echo Farm · #**118** 07-03-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Earlier in this thread we discussed how Dutrow did it with Golden Man, in consecutive stakes, on consecutive days at Monmouth and Delaware, a few years ago.

But that wasn't Richard. The trainer was Lawrence Walters at Monmouth, and Tony Dutrow at Delaware.

parsixfarms · #**119** 07-03-2008, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Echo Farm

But that wasn't Richard. The trainer was Lawrence Walters at Monmouth, and Tony Dutrow at Delaware.

Golden Man was Dutrow's horse, for Goldfarb and Dubb. Apparently, this occurred when Dutrow was serving a "suspension." Walters was Dutrow's Monmouth assistant, so the horse ran in his name there, and Tony Dutrow apparently saddled the horse in Delaware for his brother.

SniperSB23 · #**120** 07-03-2008, 09:02 AM

Anyone find it funny that Dutrow was considering running Frost Giant in that Wednesday allowance Bribon won and then wheeling him back in the Suburban but now that the horse is a G1 winner he apparently needs to rest until the JCGC?