Scat Daddy retired - Page 4

Cannon Shell · #61 06-25-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ELA

Chuck, don't get me wrong -- the colt isn't a nobody. However, I just don't think he was that good of a colt. The talk about him being at or very near the head of the class, early on, seemed to be a bit of overhype to me. G1's without question cannot be dismissed.

Winning the Travers, to me is a huge "if" and although it may be rhetorical, I think it was more probable that he didn't win than possible he did. I think his value is maxed out right now, unless he went on to win something else of substance, and in order to maintain that value, he certainly can't afford to get beat where he would be a strong favorite. Winning a race like that doesn't add to value, but losing one can diminish value.

The hype I refer to is merely the fact that I think they have to build him up to command and fill a book at the $40k price range -- and personally, I think that's too high. I am not a pedigree expert or bloodstock agent, but I think $30k might be more like it -- speaking from a market perspective -- and I am not sure he fills a book at that level (legitimately I mean, LOL). At $30k, or $40k, personally, I want to breed to one hell of a horse (with everything else considered) -- and to me, he's just not "that" kind of horse.

I see your points and I think he'll be a nice their stallion somewhere, relatively speaking get some nice mares, etc. I just feel that value is maxed now -- more downside than up. I guess we'll never know, LOL.

Eric

Eric
I am not saying that I like the horse as a racehorse or a stallion prospect. But compare him to horses with similar race records and pedigrees and you get Lion Heart and First Samurai. I'm not trying to argue that he is as good or bad as these horses but they have similar credentials and I believe LH is 25k and FS is 40. Both got very sizable books.
You can't take away his positives and I don't think there is anyone, breeders included who thought he was a super horse. But IF he were to have won a big race or 2 in the fall, his stud fee (since his value is immaterial being Coolmore owned) would have risen. And if he had lost a couple, it would still be where it will be.

sumitas · #62 06-25-2007, 08:34 PM

he does have a good resume. compare him to Sharp Humor at $12.5k i believe and one can see him going for the $30-$40k range initially...he was near the top of his class before his foot problems surfaced prior to the Derby.

Bobby Fischer · #63 06-25-2007, 08:36 PM

The only thing good about Scat Daddy is that he is a pretty well formed Johannesburg.
He isn't one of the smallish Johannesburgs. At least he has some good size and is a pretty nice animal.

But what are you paying for?
somewhat precocious , versatile and has moderate speed.

Nice horse for the cheaper races.

Even Johannesburg is way overrated as a sire of classic distance dirt runners.

There is a market for these animals and you basically have to breed and sell a Scat Daddy, but I am not saying they are worth market value.

sumitas · #64 06-25-2007, 08:42 PM

he is closely inbred to Mr Prospector, 2x3 and i guess you got the good and the bad with that mating.

philcski · #65 06-25-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Eric
I am not saying that I like the horse as a racehorse or a stallion prospect. But compare him to horses with similar race records and pedigrees and you get Lion Heart and First Samurai. I'm not trying to argue that he is as good or bad as these horses but they have similar credentials and I believe LH is 25k and FS is 40. Both got very sizable books.
You can't take away his positives and I don't think there is anyone, breeders included who thought he was a super horse. But IF he were to have won a big race or 2 in the fall, his stud fee (since his value is immaterial being Coolmore owned) would have risen. And if he had lost a couple, it would still be where it will be.

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

ELA · #66 06-25-2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

Excellent point.

Eric

2Hot4TV · #67 06-25-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

I think I just heard Joel's gun go off...

now that was funny.

sumitas · #68 06-25-2007, 08:50 PM

Lion Heart commands $25k...

NTamm1215 · #69 06-25-2007, 08:53 PM

Maybe I just really, really didn't like Lion Heart but there's no way I'd pay 25k or even half of that to be bred to him. He found a way to lose the Blue Grass despite being on the golden rail, he won a watered-down Haskell while allowed to cruise on the front end then was exposed against real horses once again in the Travers. Even harder to believe First Samurai goes for 15k more than him. Sorry folks, if FS goes for 40k, Scat Daddy has to be good for 50k.

NT

Cajungator26 · #70 06-25-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Maybe I just really, really didn't like Lion Heart but there's no way I'd pay 25k or even half of that to be bred to him. He found a way to lose the Blue Grass despite being on the golden rail, he won a watered-down Haskell while allowed to cruise on the front end then was exposed against real horses once again in the Travers. Even harder to believe First Samurai goes for 15k more than him. Sorry folks, if FS goes for 40k, Scat Daddy has to be good for 50k.

NT

First Sam filled his book at that price, and you're talking apples and oranges when you compare their pedigrees.

Not sure what Giant's Causeway goes for now, but Johannesburg is at 65k. I highly doubt that Scat Daddy will be anywhere near that amount.

Danzig · #71 06-25-2007, 09:20 PM

glad to hear it.

goodness knows we don't have enough horses of his calibre at stud already.

Danzig · #72 06-25-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no way that he stands for less than $25k. If the yearling markets is solid and the Sheikh Mo boycott doesn't spread, he may go as high as $40k.

that high?!

i'm in the wrong business. that just seems high to me...crazy crazy

Cannon Shell · #73 06-25-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Here's the difference... Lion Heart actually ran a few fast races in his career... Scat Daddy never did. I'd go to Lion Heart in a flash over Scat Daddy at the same price.

It is a little more complicated than that

Cannon Shell · #74 06-25-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Maybe I just really, really didn't like Lion Heart but there's no way I'd pay 25k or even half of that to be bred to him. He found a way to lose the Blue Grass despite being on the golden rail, he won a watered-down Haskell while allowed to cruise on the front end then was exposed against real horses once again in the Travers. Even harder to believe First Samurai goes for 15k more than him. Sorry folks, if FS goes for 40k, Scat Daddy has to be good for 50k.

NT

Well actually you breed a mare to the stallion, you dont actually get bred yourself... though I'm sure that some farms may make special considerations....

Bogey · #75 06-25-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The truth is, it actually makes real sense to retire him, as his resume is much better than his actual talent, and in all likelihood his value would only diminish by his racing in the future.

I guess it's easy for me to say because I certainly won't miss him....except to bet against him.

Personally, I hit the PK4 when he won the Champagne and I bet him heavily when he won the FOY. Thanks to my buddy Joel Cunningham, who touted him before he made his 1st start. Joel stated that he could drag the starting gate and still win. I remember Oracle 80 stating that another horse had a chance. Well, Scat Daddy won for fun in the slop and had a very nice career. I cashed over $3K in tickets, so I personally sad to see him retired. Go Scat Daddy Go.

Cannon Shell · #76 06-25-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig

that high?!

i'm in the wrong business. that just seems high to me...crazy crazy

I did not say it makes sense but look where stud fees are.

Bogey · #77 06-25-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I did not say it makes sense but look where stud fees are.

I heard a rumor that you stated that Afleet Alex was sore before the '05 Derby. Can you comment on this.

Cajungator26 · #78 06-25-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogey

Personally, I hit the PK4 when he won the Champagne and I bet him heavily when he won the FOY. Thanks to my buddy Joel Cunningham, who touted him before he made his 1st start. Joel stated that he could drag the starting gate and still win. I remember Oracle 80 stating that another horse had a chance. Well, Scat Daddy won for fun in the slop and had a very nice career. I cashed over $3K in tickets, so I personally sad to see him retired. Go Scat Daddy Go.

Well said Bogey...

Joel emailed me today to let me know... I really liked this colt a lot too. So maybe he wasn't a speedball or a real flashy winner, but he was very gutsy and tried hard. He was good enough for me.

Cannon Shell · #79 06-25-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bogey

I heard a rumor that you stated that Afleet Alex was sore before the '05 Derby. Can you comment on this.

Huh?

Bogey · #80 06-25-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Well said Bogey...

Joel emailed me today to let me know... I really liked this colt a lot too. So maybe he wasn't a speedball or a real flashy winner, but he was very gutsy and tried hard. He was good enough for me.

Cajun, I'm glad you are giving Joel some credit, I know he wasn't a popular figure on the DT board, but bottom line the guy knows what he is talking about and always has an opinion.