Change of Plans for Lava Man

[repent]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

You seem a little sensitive about the Smarty Jones subject. However, you seldom miss an opportunity to trash him. IMO, it puts your views on The Tin Man in perspective.

--Dunbar

Im not sensitive about anything.
I dont give 2 sh*ts about any horse, much less lucky jones.

Ive already said what I have to say about that one horse in the 3YO thread.
I am very aware how fast he was.

who the hell are you anyway?

wtf do you care what I think of lucky jones or the tin man.
I certainly dont give a sh*t what you think of any one particular horse.
if you are from the ESPN or Thoroughbred Times boards, identify yourself.


Repent

[repent]

what up Dixie.
these trolls never completely die off I guess.

hell,
Ive said a thousand times over that I, like any racing observer, knows how fast smarty jones was.

yet losers still want to ask me about him as if I am some kind of smarty jones racing historian.


Repent

[Dunbar]

repent, your opinion of Smarty Jones is pretty complicated. You write you are "very aware how fast he was", but you also write "he sucked".

Then again, your comments on The Tin Man didn't make much sense to me, either.

Have a few more rants. I think I'm done with this thread.

--Dunbar

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by repent

oh wow.
The Slow Man has tried the BCT before(when he was actually a better horse) and failed miserably.

he got away with a terribly slow pace and won a pretty weak Grade 1 10f race.
I know its not good to say that about the Arlington Million but thats what it was this year.

this is not a legitimate US threat.
our only shot is English Channel.
I originally doubted him, but he has been excellent as a 4YO this year.
problem is, he probably is simply not good enough to run with the top 10 European horses at 12f and Im guessing at least 2 or 3 of those will make the trip to run in the BCT.
thats just the reality of the situation.


Repent

The Slow Man finished 4th in the 2002 BC Turf as the 2nd highest price in the 8 horse field?? I am not sure how that is considered failing miserably picking up a $135,000 check for his efforts. The Tin Man has won every race he has entered in the US this year and finished 2nd in Dubai. He is by all accounts better this year or at least winning at a very high percentage.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

repent, your opinion of Smarty Jones is pretty complicated. You write you are "very aware how fast he was", but you also write "he sucked".

Then again, your comments on The Tin Man didn't make much sense to me, either.

Have a few more rants. I think I'm done with this thread.

--Dunbar

'pent is sore at smarty because he never made any money off of mr. jones. he's taken it personally...hey repent--it's business not personal!!

Originally Posted by repent

what up Dixie.
these trolls never completely die off I guess.

hell,
Ive said a thousand times over that I, like any racing observer, knows how fast smarty jones was.

yet losers still want to ask me about him as if I am some kind of smarty jones racing historian.


Repent

Repent,
Dunbat specializes inattempting to find fault with others while NEVER adding anything of even the most remote value to a thread or discussion.
Not one time has he ever written anything of vaule or interest.
The Tin man got very lucky and loose last time, it won't happen again. That you can bet on.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Repent,
Dunbat specializes inattempting to find fault with others while NEVER adding anything of even the most remote value to a thread or discussion.
Not one time has he ever written anything of vaule or interest.
The Tin man got very lucky and loose last time, it won't happen again. That you can bet on.

Last time?? He has finished behind one horse in his 4 starts this year...David Junior. Last I heard, he's an ok horse. the Tin Man is having an unbelievable year for an 8 year old. It is not like he has had one lucky race this year getting loose. He has been superb in all 4 races this year...again finishing ahead of every single comer but one...David Junior.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Last time?? He has finished behind one horse in his 4 starts this year...David Junior. Last I heard, he's an ok horse. the Tin Man is having an unbelievable year for an 8 year old. It is not like he has had one lucky race this year getting loose. He has been superb in all 4 races this year...again finishing ahead of every single comer but one...David Junior.

I dont think he's strong enough for a likely very strong Euro contingent in the BC Turf...but to knock what he has done this year as I am reading is insanity defined.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Repent,
Dunbat specializes inattempting to find fault with others while NEVER adding anything of even the most remote value to a thread or discussion.
Not one time has he ever written anything of vaule or interest.
The Tin man got very lucky and loose last time, it won't happen again. That you can bet on.

You're the only one who thinks that about Dunbar.

With regards to The Tin Man's last race, explain to me why Cacique couldn't beat him. They were neck and neck at the quarter pole. The Tin Man proceeded to blow him away in the stretch. Cacique had no excuses. You need to watch the replay.

When two horses are neck and neck at the quarter pole and one horse blows the other away in the stretch, how could you come up with an excuse?

[Gander]

I'm really looking forward to this race. I hope the Tin Man runs away from them again. How can you not love this horse?

[Danzig]

so, is it still the plan for the tin man and english channel to square off again in the hirsch??

[Gander]

What I dont understand is why when front runners (like Tin Man) set a slow pace and win, their efforts are so quickly admonished and when horses like English Channel get dream stalking trip off fast fractions and win, they are deemed super horses?

Can somebody please answer this. Thanks.

[Gander]

English Channel wont ship out there, will he? Why wouldnt he just run at Belmont on Oct 7th and avoid facing the Tin Man?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Gander

English Channel wont ship out there, will he? Why wouldnt he just run at Belmont on Oct 7th and avoid facing the Tin Man?

i read it the other day, that he may go in the hirsch...seemed a bit strange to me, that's why i'm wondering if it's so....

as for why is it horses who 'steal' it don't get respect??? hmmm, i guess the same reason why stone closers are always needing to just go a little longer!! lol he'll get there next time, all he needed was one more furlong. yeah, yeah, sure, sure.

go figure. everyone loves to see those silky sullivan wanna-be's. look how much praise gorella gets. she fits the bill perfectly.

Originally Posted by Gander

English Channel wont ship out there, will he? Why wouldnt he just run at Belmont on Oct 7th and avoid facing the Tin Man?

Why wouldn't he do both Tim?
And Tim really, I mean that day at Arlington the fillies went in 1:11:3 and the million was in 1:15. I don't think you understand just how slow that pace was, you certainly don't if you are asking that question.
Picture the Tin Man running that fast against the fillies in the beverly D, he'd have been 17 lengths off the lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! '
That pace wasn't slow, it was a walk for real.
Sorry but no matter who sets a pace like that, its hard to take the race at face value.
Its not a knock against the Tin Man at all, and noone is knocking him.
But its just unrealistic that he could get away with that in the Breeders
Cup.
So Tim, just to clarify this, are you saying he will win the Breeders Cup? Because you can't have it both ways. hes either than good without an easy lead, or hes not. And you either think that ever in his life again he could get loose in 1:15, or its not.
But I will tell you this, as much as you wanna bet, lemme know, I want Cacique heads up agaisnt him the next time they meet.

Gander lets put it this way. Do you think its plausible to say that the Tin Man will ever be loose again on the lead in 1;15 on firm turf in a grade one race?
Thats the thing Tim. Noone is knocking the horse, noone. I just don't think using one grade one race where a horse is on the lead in fractions 17 lengths slower than the filly counterparts on the same course is a very good barometer for judging who is better than who in the big picture of things.
If you think thats nonsense, than certainly you will be betting the Tin man on BC day. Or at least you will say that he will finish ahead of cacique.
Cacique returned with a crazy good effort in the Man O war where he ran his last 1/8th in 10:4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know that hes capable of that. I don't know that the Tin Man could rate off a speed duel and finish powerfully like that. I do know that when the Tin Man is loose on the lead hes tough to beat, but I just can't see that happening again to that extent.

[Danzig]

just did an archive search on drf, sure enough, english channel is mentioned as going out west, as is wait a while. or MAY be going out west...who knows?? guess we'll see!


http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do...4&subs=0&arc=1

[Honu]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Why wouldn't he do both Tim?
And Tim really, I mean that day at Arlington the fillies went in 1:11:3 and the million was in 1:15. I don't think you understand just how slow that pace was, you certainly don't if you are asking that question.
Picture the Tin Man running that fast against the fillies in the beverly D, he'd have been 17 lengths off the lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! '
That pace wasn't slow, it was a walk for real.
Sorry but no matter who sets a pace like that, its hard to take the race at face value.
Its not a knock against the Tin Man at all, and noone is knocking him.
But its just unrealistic that he could get away with that in the Breeders
Cup.
So Tim, just to clarify this, are you saying he will win the Breeders Cup? Because you can't have it both ways. hes either than good without an easy lead, or hes not. And you either think that ever in his life again he could get loose in 1:15, or its not.
But I will tell you this, as much as you wanna bet, lemme know, I want Cacique heads up agaisnt him the next time they meet.

You are right oracle to think that jockeys wont be that dumb again and give him an easy lead , ha but what if they do , that would be fricken funny, and it could happen. For sure Victor rides this horse 100 percent better than Mike Smith , Mike used to just let him fly out to the lead and open up as much as he could and see if they could come and catch him which Johar and High Chapparell did in the 2003 Breeders cup and he wasnt as good as he is now.
But if he draws a middle to outside post and someone chooses to go to the front and set some pace well then he will stalk and he can stalk and he can win doing it . Because I kind of get tunnel vision , who will be the pace setters in the Breeders Cup?

Originally Posted by Honu

You are right oracle to think that jockeys wont be that dumb again and give him an easy lead , ha but what if they do , that would be fricken funny, and it could happen. For sure Victor rides this horse 100 percent better than Mike Smith , Mike used to just let him fly out to the lead and open up as much as he could and see if they could come and catch him which Johar and High Chapparell did in the 2003 Breeders cup and he wasnt as good as he is now.
But if he draws a middle to outside post and someone chooses to go to the front and set some pace well then he will stalk and he can stalk and he can win doing it . Because I kind of get tunnel vision , who will be the pace setters in the Breeders Cup?

Honu!! How was Hawaii?
To be honest I'm not real sure who is coming from Europe and what the pace implications will be from those who do come. I'm not sure if Showing Up is planning on running in that race either, but he would have tactical speed to at least insure he doesnt get away in 1:15 again.
As far as Americans pointing to it, I only know of Cacique and English Channel and I think EC has more speed than he showed last time but that the post postition caused them to try and rate.
Not sure how the pace will unfold at this point.
Is the Tin Man gonna be in the Hirsch this weekend?

[Honu]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Honu!! How was Hawaii?
To be honest I'm not real sure who is coming from Europe and what the pace implications will be from those who do come. I'm not sure if Showing Up is planning on running in that race either, but he would have tactical speed to at least insure he doesnt get away in 1:15 again.
As far as Americans pointing to it, I only know of Cacique and English Channel and I think EC has more speed than he showed last time but that the post postition caused them to try and rate.
Not sure how the pace will unfold at this point.
Is the Tin Man gonna be in the Hirsch this weekend?

Hawaii was awesome!!!!!!! I got to see some old friends and boogie boarded on my favorite beaches, alltho there wasnt much breaking except in town I cought some wee waves and had fun anyway. Snorkled with some "Honu's" ( about 5 of them the first day) and saw some eel's and a black Grouper that was about 5 feet long. Ill send you some pics( if you want ) but it really doesnt capture the beauty of the island but youll get the idea.
TTM is going to run this weekend , I worked him on the grass the other day and I really feel he is doing better than ever , he is an amazing horse to be around. If you watched him gallop on the dirt youd be like who is that claimer but when he gets on the grass he is a whole diffirent animal.