Aqueduct Card

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There would be no made up value. If a horse is worth less than 15k then he needs to run elsewhere. If you want better racing you have to start somewhere.

If they got rid of all the horses in New York who are truly worth less than 15K true value to their owners ... you'd have a lot of horses going out.

And a lot more horses who are just a single condition or two away from joining them.

I remember the first year at Presque Isle when the wrote those stupid N1X alw races with 72K purses. A horse of Loren Cox's shipped up off of an open 5K claiming win at Mountaineer and won one of them with ease without even really improving his figure.

Cheap open claiming is good bread and butter horse racing. I'm not so sure Rapid Redux would even be worth 15K in NY.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

If they got rid of all the horses in New York who are truly worth less than 15K true value to their owners ... you'd have a lot of horses going out.

And a lot more horses who are just a single condition or two away from joining them.

I remember the first year at Presque Isle when the wrote those stupid N1X alw races with 72K purses. A horse of Loren Cox's shipped up off of an open 5K claiming win at Mountaineer and won one of them with ease without even really improving his figure.

Cheap open claiming is good bread and butter horse racing. I'm not so sure Rapid Redux would even be worth 15K in NY.

Based on what is presently making up some of their cards they need to have a lot going out. They would need to give some notice, like announcing that this will start at Belmont now. Open claiming races are great, most of what they have now isnt that. You also need to have a high top end. With the purses they can give out having $150k claimers is possible. Rather than running in allowance races on a secondary circuit, a guy could run in high level claiming races. Some enterprising owners will claim at that level which is good for everyone.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

With the purses they can give out having $150k claimers is possible. Rather than running in allowance races on a secondary circuit, a guy could run in high level claiming races. Some enterprising owners will claim at that level which is good for everyone.

Pletcher would be odds-on with a horse like Turbo Compressor.

[Rudeboyelvis]

Chuck - Since the original thread was about Aqueduct, and specifically the product they put on through the winter - I geared my response toward what seems to me to be the most glaring issue with winter racing there - their state bred racing program. 95% of the horses bred in the state have no business running for the purses they soon will see. More stallions are being placed in NY to accommodate the growing population of mares (almost all bad) that can drop a foal on the ground and be blessed NY registered. It is not unlike LA, only it's the tip of the iceberg. 10 years from now (assuming the relationship with Genting is intact) you'll have the same problems they have - except LA has 3 tracks to spread the "wealth" around to.

Finger Lakes can barely handle the population they have, and their adoption program is maxed out on day 1. And it goes without saying that the product there does not support itself.

A handful of Finger lakes trainers bring some of them here to Tampa, most are laid up for the winter, and few go elsewhere.

Encouraging the top outfits to keep stalls there for their higher end dirt horses / promising 2-3yos in the winter instead of shipping south would be a start. I don't know if that will happen, personally.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

Chuck - Since the original thread was about Aqueduct, and specifically the product they put on through the winter - I geared my response toward what seems to me to be the most glaring issue with winter racing there - their state bred racing program. 95% of the horses bred in the state have no business running for the purses they soon will see. More stallions are being placed in NY to accommodate the growing population of mares (almost all bad) that can drop a foal on the ground and be blessed NY registered. It is not unlike LA, only it's the tip of the iceberg. 10 years from now (assuming the relationship with Genting is intact) you'll have the same problems they have - except LA has 3 tracks to spread the "wealth" around to.

Finger Lakes can barely handle the population they have, and their adoption program is maxed out on day 1. And it goes without saying that the product there does not support itself.

A handful of Finger lakes trainers bring some of them here to Tampa, most are laid up for the winter, and few go elsewhere.

Encouraging the top outfits to keep stalls there for their higher end dirt horses / promising 2-3yos in the winter instead of shipping south would be a start. I don't know if that will happen, personally.

Supply and demand will eventually max out the program. By limiting the amount of NY bred races you will force people to breed better horses. While there is no doubt that most NY breds will be running for a lot more than they should be there are ancillary benefits of bringing more money into the state via mares, stallions and foals. The breeders do have some political clout and as such are a player. If you simply write fewer, better races the issues will wind themselves down.

You will never get the top young horses staying North simply because of the weather and the effect of not being able to train regularly all the time. However it seems like some of the big outfits have left better horses and there are some new stables there.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Supply and demand will eventually max out the program. By limiting the amount of NY bred races you will force people to breed better horses. While there is no doubt that most NY breds will be running for a lot more than they should be there are ancillary benefits of bringing more money into the state via mares, stallions and foals. The breeders do have some political clout and as such are a player. If you simply write fewer, better races the issues will wind themselves down.

You will never get the top young horses staying North simply because of the weather and the effect of not being able to train regularly all the time. However it seems like some of the big outfits have left better horses and there are some new stables there.

Force people to Play at a higher stakes craps table.

[cloud_break]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In addition they should rein in the large stables by instituting a strict stall limit on NYRA grounds of 80 stalls regardless of what track they are located at. Make owners make a choice instead of just continously sending all the horses to the few outfits which horde them. If Pletcher can convince an owner that his horse should be racing at Delaware in a 37k MSW than in Saratoga for an 80k maiden then god bless them both. But if the horses were distributed among a greater variety of trainers you would see an increase in field size and quality in your better races simply from horses that were already training there.

I've often thought that the industry needs this sort of regulation nationwide, not just on NYRA grounds, its just that NYRA could actually enforce it. I'd love to see a national registry of sorts, where a trainer could only list a certain number of horses to race in his name, regardless of the horse's location, with an absolute annual cap.