The House is about to socialize your medicine, and your life.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

that's inaccurate.

the amendment prohibits any government funded insurance plan from paying for an abortion. it has no effect on the private insurance market.

even plans that depend partially on government funding could offer riders for abortion coverage which you would pay for without assistance from any federal government source..

We need a third source. Not what I read regarding private insurance, or your ability to buy private plans, but that may have something to do with pools.

Edit: did some searching, and it does involve the exchanges - insurance companies will have to offer the same plan with and without abortion coverage in the exchanges, and as nearly all people in the exchanges will receive some insurance credits, so those people will not be able to purchase any policy with abortion included, thus the companies probably won't even offer it in the exchange pools. If you want to purchase it privately (if it is even offered to you in the exchange) that means that you must anticipate in advance you might need an elective abortion (??!! are they kidding?) Women whose employers purchase insurance through the exchanges will not be able to purchase policies that provide coverage for abortion.

In other words, it appears that only women who purchase their own private insurance policies, entirely outside any exchanges (the most expensive available) will be able to get coverage.

Abortion is legal. This amendment was a back-door pro-life circumvention of a legal right, that sets women's rights back decades if it sticks around.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

even if we take for granted your 'in the air figure' of 1% to be correct which it isn't. What's 1% of 1.2 trillion?

figuring a population in the US to be 300 million and 22.5 illegals here it's hard to believe only 1% of the 7% get treated? Or are they just healthier than your average American?

My figure was not "in the air", it has been in the press regarding the diversionary attempt to tie healthcare reform to illegal aliens. If you have something different, post it.

Illegal aliens tend not to seek out things that can get them discovered as such, such as hospitals, unless they have no choice.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

they don't have the same benefits. but how can you turn away an emergency, regardless of who they are? they're still a human being-you can't just let them lay outside the door, can you?

The answer is National Identification Cards, and if you don't have yours on your person when the ambulance picks you up, they stop CPR once you get to the hospital until they can accurately determine your citizenship status.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

that's inaccurate.

the amendment prohibits any government funded insurance plan from paying for an abortion. it has no effect on the private insurance market.

even plans that depend partially on government funding could offer riders for abortion coverage which you would pay for without assistance from any federal government source.

we've lived with the hyde amendment for decades. i'm not saying it's the greatest thing but it's not worth trashing the health care bill over this.

All those women who plan their yearly abortions in advance will surely be grateful for this clarification.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Riot

My figure was not "in the air", it has been in the press regarding the diversionary attempt to tie healthcare reform to illegal aliens. If you have something different, post it.

Illegal aliens tend not to seek out things that can get them discovered as such, such as hospitals, unless they have no choice.

just curious where was this in the press? You consistently come up w/facts never citing a source other than your personal recall. And as I said even if your number is correct, 1% of 1.2 trillion is 12 billion so I'd suggest the 1% figure to be meant as a diversionary attempt to include them in healthcare citing the insignificant sounding 1% figure instead of stating the true cost of 12 billion. When illegals have no fear of going to the hospital surely their visits will increase and with 22.5 million in the country that 12 billion could easily grow by leaps and bounds.

Plus check out the savings, decrease of classroom size and increase of jobs we'd experience by doing nothing but following the laws already on the books and sending them home instead of to work, the hospital, school or prison.


http://immigrationcounters.com/

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

All those women who plan their yearly abortions in advance will surely be grateful for this clarification.

Well they could always add euthanasia into the bill for dumb broads who don't take the rider option. That would cut down on the need to protect dumb fuc.ks in the future.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Well they could always add euthanasia into the bill for dumb broads who don't take the rider option. That would cut down on the need to protect dumb fuc.ks in the future.

Well that's what happens in things like this -- people wind up helping subsidize procedures for other people.

And abortion is a legal medical procedure, and as long as it is, it shouldn't take a separate rider. I'm not particularly keen on having my tax dollars go to plans that would support Michelle Duggar as she continues to use her uterus as a clown car, but it's part of the bargain, as long as it's legal.

[Antitrust32]

it would be pitiful for our tax dollars to support abortion no matter how pro choice anyone is. only for a rape victim or similar circumstance should it be okay for tax dollars to pay for it.

women who are too stupid to use protection should either pay an arm and a leg for an abortion.. get their "baby daddy" to shell out the $.. or go the adoption rout. Its 2009, there shouldnt be unwanted pregnancies. some people are too irresponsible and then want someone else to take care of the problem.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

it would be pitiful for our tax dollars to support abortion no matter how pro choice anyone is. only for a rape victim or similar circumstance should it be okay for tax dollars to pay for it.

women who are too stupid to use protection should either pay an arm and a leg for an abortion.. get their "baby daddy" to shell out the $.. or go the adoption rout. Its 2009, there shouldnt be unwanted pregnancies. some people are too irresponsible and then want someone else to take care of the problem.

Ok, well if you get warned that you're at risk for diabetes and don't change your habits to lose weight, exercise more and reduce your sugar and refined carb intake, I don't want my dollars to go towards helping you once you get sick. I think you should be sick all the time if you can't afford it because you're too irresponsible to do your part.

If you cut your finger off with a saw while doing work to improve your home, I also don't want to help pay for that, since you should have been more careful and not greedy to want your home to be nicer. You should just be responsible and not want your insurance to help pay for your hosptial care because you did it to yourself.

And for that matter, why pay for pregnant women and their care from insurance money either? It was their choice, and if they didn't want to accept full financial responsibility, why should I help pay for the care that they brought on themselves?

Point being, it's bulls*hit to try to deny legal medical procedures to someone else while enjoying different ones for yourself.

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Ok, well if you get warned that you're at risk for diabetes and don't change your habits to lose weight, exercise more and reduce your sugar and refined carb intake, I don't want my dollars to go towards helping you once you get sick. I think you should be sick all the time if you can't afford it because you're too irresponsible to do your part.

If you cut your finger off with a saw while doing work to improve your home, I also don't want to help pay for that, since you should have been more careful and not greedy to want your home to be nicer. You should just be responsible and not want your insurance to help pay for your hosptial care because you did it to yourself.

And for that matter, why pay for pregnant women and their care from insurance money either? It was their choice, and if they didn't want to accept full financial responsibility, why should I help pay for the care that they brought on themselves?

Point being, it's bulls*hit to try to deny legal medical procedures to someone else while enjoying different ones for yourself.

I agree with all of that. Let them pay out of pocket or take out private insurance to cover those expenses.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

I agree with all of that. Let them pay out of pocket or take out private insurance to cover those expenses.

And as a "socialist" (!!!!) supporter of national health care, I think it comes with the territory, that you don't get to pick and choose what you think should be allowed even if it's entirely legal, while enjoying legal medical care for yourself that others may find objectionable or totally your own fault for doing it to yourself.

Private insurance companies should have the freedom to decide what they will offer.

Maybe then the masses will realize that it isn't the evil insurance companies who sent them a $15,000 bill for a simple outpatient surgery. And maybe, just maybe, they'll realize the real enemies are the attorneys who have crippled the doctor's and hospitals with yellow tape and fears of literal anal rape in a courtroom.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

Ok, well if you get warned that you're at risk for diabetes and don't change your habits to lose weight, exercise more and reduce your sugar and refined carb intake, I don't want my dollars to go towards helping you once you get sick. I think you should be sick all the time if you can't afford it because you're too irresponsible to do your part.

If you cut your finger off with a saw while doing work to improve your home, I also don't want to help pay for that, since you should have been more careful and not greedy to want your home to be nicer. You should just be responsible and not want your insurance to help pay for your hosptial care because you did it to yourself.

And for that matter, why pay for pregnant women and their care from insurance money either? It was their choice, and if they didn't want to accept full financial responsibility, why should I help pay for the care that they brought on themselves?

Point being, it's bulls*hit to try to deny legal medical procedures to someone else while enjoying different ones for yourself.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

And as a "socialist" (!!!!) supporter of national health care, I think it comes with the territory, that you don't get to pick and choose what you think should be allowed even if it's entirely legal, while enjoying legal medical care for yourself that others may find objectionable or totally your own fault for doing it to yourself.

I really dont think you will be a supporter of socialist medicine if it actually happened. crappiest care around. Try living in a country with socialzed medicine and you will see.

oh yeah, and expect 40-50% of your paycheck going to the feds if you want socialized care.

[dellinger63]

How do I apply to become an illegal alien?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Private insurance companies should have the freedom to decide what they will offer.

Maybe then the masses will realize that it isn't the evil insurance companies who sent them a $15,000 bill for a simple outpatient surgery. And maybe, just maybe, they'll realize the real enemies are the attorneys who have crippled the doctor's and hospitals with yellow tape and fears of literal anal rape in a courtroom.

In your usual eloquent fashion you nailed it.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

just curious where was this in the press? You consistently come up w/facts never citing a source other than your personal recall.
And as I said even if your number is correct, 1% of 1.2 trillion is 12 billion so I'd suggest the 1% figure to be meant as a diversionary attempt to include them in healthcare citing the insignificant sounding 1% figure ...

Seems that 1% is overstated according to some figures. Too many. How about 14% of 43.9 million uninsured are non-citizens? Which is a little over 6 million people we are talking about. Out of 330 million.

See Brad Wright's article today about the "Po' white south" are the uninsured at Huffington Post website. He quotes the Urban Institutes policy briefs numbers involved in the healthcare debate in his article.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

Private insurance companies should have the freedom to decide what they will offer.
.

Private insurance companies do exactly that. They can even take it back after they sign a contract to do so and you've paid them. They can even take it back after they have said they would pay. They can drop an insured at any time, at their whim, as there are no laws to hold them to their side of the contract. The majority of bankruptcies in America are due to insured people paying for healthcare (google, Dell, it's everywhere).

In this, the wealthiest and most generous of countries, where all are created equal, we have thousands of our citizens getting extremely ill and dying every year because they cannot get regular basic health coverage, or they are ill and their insurance company pulls the rug out from under them and they lose their savings and their house and all they worked for their entire life.

And that is why decades have been spent trying to get health care reform instituted. Thank goodness there is a real chance of that.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I really dont think you will be a supporter of socialist medicine if it actually happened. crappiest care around. Try living in a country with socialzed medicine and you will see.

oh yeah, and expect 40-50% of your paycheck going to the feds if you want socialized care.

Nothing in the healthcare reform bills are any more "socialized" than current Medicare.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by jms62

In your usual eloquent fashion you nailed it.

Then you guys will be happy that tort reform and malpractice arbitration improvements are in the House bill.