NoBiz and Shipping... - Page 3

philcski · #41 05-08-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yes, you are misinformed about whether or not you can tell if an animal does not move as well as they once did over the television screen.

And no I wasn't at Tampa. I have talked with several people in the business about this and have been doing this for awhile now. I said that the horses were not moving as well in that race, and they weren't. I didn't say that they were necessarily sore or lame. It was publicly known that Street Sense had issues before he ever made his first start back this year. In hindsight, the horse may not have liked the Tampa Bay Derby surface and was probably getting tired at the end of the race. When he ran in the BG Stakes, he was moving much stronger and better and proved that he could run through whatever problems that he has. At Churchill Downs, he was moving beautifully and training like a monster, and that is why I picked him to win the Derby.

On the other hand, AGS did just the opposite. AGS was not moving in that race as well as he moved as a two-year-old, and he proved in the Wood that he could not run through whatever problems he has to cause that kind of action. The Tampa Bay Derby did him in, and he has not been able to show his true ability since that race. Hopefully, Pletcher can get him straight and he can get back to his racing career in as short of an amount of time as possible because I think that he is one of the best of his generation.

Sometimes, these horses are not what you would necessarily call lame but you can tell that something isn't quite right with them when their action while racing is different from their previous race.

Someone who is known for his ability to judge horses in this manner in the horse racing industry agreed with me about these two horses in that particular race by watching them on the tape.

Also, not that the two year old sales have anything really to do with this, but I would also like to point out that trainers like Baffert who have a really good eye for horses do not even watch the previews live at most of the sales. They are sent the videos and can tell everything that they need to know by watching the video including if a horse is off or not. They then look at the Hip Numbers that they are interested in a few days before the sale.

Trainers like Ellis actually watch the horses work live, look at the horses the day after the works to check for soundness, and then rely heavily on the video to get a better idea of what they are looking at because you can judge the way a horse is traveling a lot better watching the videos than you can judge them by watching them go live.

Just like every knowledgeable person who have great reputations that I have talked to in this business about it, I can tell if a horse is sore in the walking ring or post parade easier on the TV than I can live. The truth of the matter is that you're going to see the same bad steps that they take over the TV as you do live.

It is the exact same principle as to why riders like me like to watch vidoes of their horses going. It is also why people like Dr. Bob Mowry teach his learner judges about judging horses through videos before they start their live work. It's just easier to see everything that they are doing.

Maybe you missed the part of the Derby where Any Given Saturday made a big move to gain 3rd at the top of the stretch, then throw in the towel. He moved just fine on Saturday... he isn't sore, or lame... he just isn't that good.

kentuckyrosesinmay · #42 05-08-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

News flash:

You said YOURSELF, Ms. Expert of all things horseracing, that you doubted Street Sense would enter the starting gate in the Kentucky Derby. Oh how RIGHT you turned out to be about that one.

There is no reason to get an attitude. I did doubt that he would be in the starting gate on the first Saturday in May just after I watched that race because of the front wraps, the horse's known issues, and the way that he looked at the end of that race. In the end, I had the horse picked to win the Derby because he looked much better in the BG Stakes despite the loss that day.

paisjpq · #43 05-08-2007, 04:50 PM

holy sh*t...feels like the good old days have returned. Wish I wasn't so under the weather with this cold....otherwise I'd have to go get a nice cold alcoholic beverage (cause I LOVE alcohol)

#44 05-08-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

There is no reason to get an attitude. I did doubt that he would be in the starting gate on the first Saturday in May just after I watched that race because of the front wraps, the horse's known issues, and the way that he looked at the end of that race. In the end, I had the horse picked to win the Derby because he looked much better in the BG Stakes despite the loss that day.

Sure you did. I strive to one day know everything about horses, even more than you know. I'll be patiently awaiting my GED diploma when that day comes and you can take your associates degree from Tits McGee Junior College of Beauticians and shove it up your arsehole, sunshine.

miraja2 · #45 05-08-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yes, you are misinformed about whether or not you can tell if an animal does not move as well as they once did over the television screen.

And no I wasn't at Tampa. I have talked with several people in the business about this and have been doing this for awhile now. I said that the horses were not moving as well in that race, and they weren't. I didn't say that they were necessarily sore or lame. It was publicly known that Street Sense had issues before he ever made his first start back this year. In hindsight, the horse may not have liked the Tampa Bay Derby surface and was probably getting tired at the end of the race. When he ran in the BG Stakes, he was moving much stronger and better and proved that he could run through whatever problems that he has. At Churchill Downs, he was moving beautifully and training like a monster, and that is why I picked him to win the Derby.

On the other hand, AGS did just the opposite. AGS was not moving in that race as well as he moved as a two-year-old, and he proved in the Wood that he could not run through whatever problems he has to cause that kind of action. The Tampa Bay Derby did him in, and he has not been able to show his true ability since that race. Hopefully, Pletcher can get him straight and he can get back to his racing career in as short of an amount of time as possible because I think that he is one of the best of his generation.

Sometimes, these horses are not what you would necessarily call lame but you can tell that something isn't quite right with them when their action while racing is different from their previous race.

Someone who is known for his ability to judge horses in this manner in the horse racing industry agreed with me about these two horses in that particular race by watching them on the tape.

Also, not that the two year old sales have anything really to do with this, but I would also like to point out that trainers like Baffert who have a really good eye for horses do not even watch the previews live at most of the sales. They are sent the videos and can tell everything that they need to know by watching the video including if a horse is off or not. They then look at the Hip Numbers that they are interested in a few days before the sale.

Trainers like Ellis actually watch the horses work live, look at the horses the day after the works to check for soundness, and then rely heavily on the video to get a better idea of what they are looking at because you can judge the way a horse is traveling a lot better watching the videos than you can judge them by watching them go live.

Just like every knowledgeable person who have great reputations that I have talked to in this business about it, I can tell if a horse is sore in the walking ring or post parade easier on the TV than I can live. The truth of the matter is that you're going to see the same bad steps that they take over the TV as you do live.

It is the exact same principle as to why riders like me like to watch vidoes of their horses going. It is also why people like Dr. Bob Mowry teach his learner judges about judging horses through videos before they start their live work. It's just easier to see everything that they are doing.

I tried to read this entire post....but I kept falling asleep.
I will assume that it was just a long-winded apology for giving out TERRIBLE "information" on Street Sense after the Tampa Bay Derby.

philcski · #46 05-08-2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Hey, that's my alma mater, assholeface.

No sh!t, me too!

What a coincidence!

ArlJim78 · #47 05-08-2007, 07:44 PM

I applied to that college, but sadly was rejected.

#48 05-08-2007, 08:21 PM

Yeah you smarties with your knowledge of sore horses and info from industry insiders..

philcski · #49 05-08-2007, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah you smarties with your knowledge of sore horses and info from industry insiders..

I cut a mean mullet, too. Let me know when you need yours done.

Danzig · #50 05-08-2007, 08:27 PM

and i will surely sleep well tonite...

wonder how one gets a scholarship to this tits mcgee school?

thanks guys, a laugh a minute!!!

Cajungator26 · #51 05-09-2007, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

holy sh*t...feels like the good old days have returned. Wish I wasn't so under the weather with this cold....otherwise I'd have to go get a nice cold alcoholic beverage (cause I LOVE alcohol)

I'm sick too. It's too bad because I love to go out clubbing and I'm always the life of the party.

paisjpq · #52 05-09-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I'm sick too. It's too bad because I love to go out clubbing and I'm always the life of the party.

I like to get 'dressed to the nines' when I go out clubbing...you know, red dress silver heels...you'll recognize me since I am the skinny blonde surrounded by guys.

paisjpq · #53 05-09-2007, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You sound hot.

I DO sound hot don't I?

estreetposse · #54 05-09-2007, 09:17 AM

Morty has been found...want him back?

paisjpq · #55 05-09-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Morty has been found...want him back?

Morty was never lost.

estreetposse · #56 05-09-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paisjpq

Morty was never lost.

Just incognito?

paisjpq · #57 05-09-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreetposse

Just incognito?

something like that I guess.

wherever morty shows up is his own deal...

Rupert Pupkin · #58 05-09-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

I tried to read this entire post....but I kept falling asleep.
I will assume that it was just a long-winded apology for giving out TERRIBLE "information" on Street Sense after the Tampa Bay Derby.

There is a horse named Top This and That that ran 5th in his debut in a $62,500 Miaden claiming race. I liked the way the horse ran, so we made the people an offer for the horse. They accepted the offer and the deal was done, pending the horse passing our vet. Our vet examined the horse and took some x-rays. He told us that the horse was a mess and that the horse would never last. The horse had a bad knee and had a bad chip in a hock. So we didn't end up buying the horse.

The horse has run 21 times since then and has made around $300,000 or so. That doesn't mean that the vet gave us "terrible information". You're not going to be right all the time about predicting which horses will last and which horses won't. All you can do is make an educated guess.

So I think it's ridiculous to give Kentuckyrosesinmay a hard time for thinking that Street Sense would not be around come Derby time. This game is very humbling and even the veterinarians are wrong all the time. To give you another example, a friend of mine owned a horse and the vet told him that the horse was very unsound and would never make it to the races. So my friend ended up selling the horse cheap. Not only did the horse make it to the races, but the horse has run 27 times and is stakes placed. Nobody is going to be right all the time.

Anyway, Jessica ended up picking Street Sense to win the Derby. I think that more than makes for her thinking that the horse would not make the race a couple of months ago. She saw that Nafzger had the horse going good again and she picked the horse to win the race.

Linny · #59 05-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakes44

Is it okay for me to think that he is just another descendant of Storm Cat that didn't get any better from 2 to 3? Everybody seems to think that just because he's big that he has that much more potential than all the other horses. What has he done in any of his races other than his maiden to justify that?

Nobiz is a tail male descendant of Ribot. His dam is a daughter of Cat. Surely you don't think that any horse with SC in his breeding, anywhere is destined to not train on?

todko · #60 05-09-2007, 11:28 AM

The top 5 worked on the CD surface. The top 2 had multiple works. The winner was stabled at CD.

Horses adjust stride to a certain degree to get traction. They adjust stride to get speed or to get distance.

It seems more trainers would work them on the track and give them time on the track so the horse can adjust. Larry Jones was smart enough to do that. Tagg wasn't.

Neither was Todd Pletcher. So much for his call that poly is great to work over but he'd rather race on dirt. If he's going to race on dirt he better give his horses some time on the dirt to adjust. I bet he will next year.