Bernardini

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't know what is funnier - that anyone would think "Invasor ate Bernardini for lunch in the BC Classic" or Pleasant Tap and Strike The Gold being held as great competition.

Strike The Gold - while a favorite horse of mine (and least favorite of my grandfather) - was a losing machine and became something of a laughing stock.



Pleasant Tap was a very solid horse .. but nothing that special.




I love how Bernardini's blowout wins in major 3yo races get picked apart - but A. P. Indy's 3yo races just get ignored. The hapless Benburb had his way with A. P. Indy in Canada off of the layoff in the Molson Million.

A. P. Indy's second best career win besides the BC Classic came in the Belmont Stakes in workmanlike fashion over the immortal My Memoirs



The year A. P. Indy won the BC Classic - Jolypha ..the 3yo filly from Europe was 3rd in the race.

I do think it's unfair that Bernardini gets knocked for finishing 2nd in the Classic. I loved Indy, but you're right - he was more workmanlike in the Belmont than anything else. Granted, he was coming off a very, very good prep in the Peter Pan.............I think 2 weeks before?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't know what is funnier - that anyone would think "Invasor ate Bernardini for lunch in the BC Classic" or Pleasant Tap and Strike The Gold being held as great competition.

Strike The Gold - while a favorite horse of mine (and least favorite of my grandfather) - was a losing machine and became something of a laughing stock.



Pleasant Tap was a very solid horse .. but nothing that special.




I love how Bernardini's blowout wins in major 3yo races get picked apart - but A. P. Indy's 3yo races just get ignored. The hapless Benburb had his way with A. P. Indy in Canada off of the layoff in the Molson Million.

A. P. Indy's second best career win besides the BC Classic came in the Belmont Stakes in workmanlike fashion over the immortal My Memoirs



The year A. P. Indy won the BC Classic - Jolypha ..the 3yo filly from Europe was 3rd in the race.

I guess that it is not possible in your world view that something went amiss for My Memoirs after the Belmont. Are you really implying that Indy would have been nearly distanced in all those subsequent races in which My Memoirs got destroyed?

I do not know why Jolypha never regained her form either, but she was clearly a top level horse, and even Frankel, years later, called her one of the best three fillies he'd ever trained.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Invasor is a deluxe version of Musket Man?

Dude, stop trying to think for yourself ... it's not working. Adopt the belief that if I say it - I must be right.

Yeah, I suppose I went overboard with the deluxe Musket Man remark, but you know as well as I do Invasor was far from being an immortal great.

As for believing you must always be right when you say something, do you still plan on being dead by the time you are 29, with three kids?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I guess that it is not possible in your world view that something went amiss for My Memoirs after the Belmont. Are you really implying that Indy would have been nearly distanced in all those subsequent races in which My Memoirs got destroyed?

I do not know why Jolypha never regained her form either, but she was clearly a top level horse, and even Frankel, years later, called her one of the best three fillies he'd ever trained.

Obviously something went badly amiss with My Memoirs physically after the Jim Dandy flop. Notice the two year layoff.

However - he hardly brought promising form into the Belmont Stakes. If Bernardini beat him in similar workmanlike fashion - it would be held against him a lot more.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

As for believing you must always be right when you say something, do you still plan on being dead by the time you are 29, with three kids?

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry.

Most unfortunate!

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Most unfortunate!

A new contender emerges in the form of my youngest brother Pat.

[Kingturf]

If I could add my 2 cents to this post? A.P. Indy without any doubts would have crushed the joke of the 92 Derby when he scratched due to his foot. While Pine Bluff (o.t.b.f) was a good horse, Lil E.T. would have been 50-1 if Pat "Wait all" Day was not on him. Casual Lies and Dance Floor could not warm up A.P. Indy and we all knew Arazi was over hyped from his juvie win the previous year at CD....btw how did that one 7f turf prep in an allowance in France workout Sheik?

A.P. Indy had the cruising speed, but was very temperamental, he lost the Molson million in the paddock that day(rank and washy) when 50-1 longshot Benburb beat him. Came to Belmont a month later and had the trip from hell losing to Pleasant Tap in the Jockey Gold cup and when he won the BC Classic, he look worst than Zilzal in 1989 in the post parade and I had always thought that was the worst a horse could look before a race. That even proves how much talent A.P. Indy had. But we all know why he was retired after his 3 yrs old season? It was called being a 4.5 Million dollar yearling and too much money was on him for being a Stallion. One of the first time siblings ran to a high level as his 1/2 brother Summer Squall won the preakness in 1990.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Lil E Tee would have given A. P. Indy all he could handle.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Lil E Tee would have given A. P. Indy all he could handle.

I doubt it. I love Bernardini and think he could (not saying he definitely would have) beaten AP Indy, but Indy was very good and he would have won that Derby no doubt. Lil E Tee was not that good, though if I recall he became a decent older horse.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Kingturf

If I could add my 2 cents to this post? A.P. Indy without any doubts would have crushed the joke of the 92 Derby when he scratched due to his foot. While Pine Bluff (o.t.b.f) was a good horse, Lil E.T. would have been 50-1 if Pat "Wait all" Day was not on him. Casual Lies and Dance Floor could not warm up A.P. Indy and we all knew Arazi was over hyped from his juvie win the previous year at CD....btw how did that one 7f turf prep in an allowance in France workout Sheik?

A.P. Indy had the cruising speed, but was very temperamental, he lost the Molson million in the paddock that day(rank and washy) when 50-1 longshot Benburb beat him. Came to Belmont a month later and had the trip from hell losing to Pleasant Tap in the Jockey Gold cup and when he won the BC Classic, he look worst than Zilzal in 1989 in the post parade and I had always thought that was the worst a horse could look before a race. That even proves how much talent A.P. Indy had. But we all know why he was retired after his 3 yrs old season? It was called being a 4.5 Million dollar yearling and too much money was on him for being a Stallion. One of the first time siblings ran to a high level as his 1/2 brother Summer Squall won the preakness in 1990.

Well said, but I do believe Indy went for about 2.9 mil.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Lil E Tee would have given A. P. Indy all he could handle.

Originally Posted by Betsy

No, he wouldn't have......

Betsy, while he does honestly seem to believe San Bernardini would have beaten Indy, he's just yanking our chains on the Lil E Tee remark.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Betsy, while he does honestly seem to believe San Bernardini would have beaten Indy, he's just yanking our chains on the Lil E Tee remark.

Oh, lol..............

You really think it's beyond the realm of possibility that Bernardini would have beaten his sire?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Betsy, while he does honestly seem to believe San Bernardini would have beaten Indy, he's just yanking our chains on the Lil E Tee remark.

It was hardly a forgone conclusion - especially with A. P. Indy's sun-dial slow Santa Anita Derby win. Both he and the 2nd place finisher Bertrando missed their next start due to injury. Bertrando missed a lot of time I believe.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It was hardly a forgone conclusion - especially with A. P. Indy's sun-dial slow Santa Anita Derby win. Both he and the 2nd place finisher Bertrando missed their next start due to injury. Bertrando missed a lot of time I believe.

Indy was a much better horse than Lil E. Tee.........but nothing's ever a foregone conclusion in the Derby

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

It was hardly a forgone conclusion - especially with A. P. Indy's sun-dial slow Santa Anita Derby win. Both he and the 2nd place finisher Bertrando missed their next start due to injury. Bertrando missed a lot of time I believe.

I was there at the SA Derby, and that 149.1 was a legit time and that was a solid race by the first three finishers. I don't care what your precious number says, that was a grade 1 performance.

It was tons better than the 150.2 sundial job Bernardini pulled in the Jim Dandy, despite the huge fig he got for beating up on nothing.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I was there at the SA Derby, and that 149.1 was a legit time and that was a solid race by the first three finishers. I don't care what your precious number says, that was a grade 1 performance.

Once again, thinking for yourself doesn't work.

Another Review won the San Bernadino in time 2 full seconds faster than A. P. Indy on the same card at the same distance.

I already covered this in-depth with your stubborn ass ...

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=83

If that was legit time for a Grade 1 ... I suppose Another Review ran a 130 that day?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Once again, thinking for yourself doesn't work.

Another Review won the San Bernadino in time 2 full seconds faster than A. P. Indy on the same card at the same distance.

I already covered this in-depth with your stubborn ass ...

http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=83

If that was legit time for a Grade 1 ... I suppose Another Review ran a 130 that day?

Yeah, we've had this discussion innumerable times in the past dozen years or so.

You are still wrong. I'm sure nowadays they'd just have split that variant nice and neat like.

Besides the time, they ran a hard fought race and were legitimately tired 3yos going a longer distance than any of them had gone before.

Was the San Bernardini race restricted to 3yos that year?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I was there at the SA Derby, and that 149.1 was a legit time and that was a solid race by the first three finishers. I don't care what your precious number says, that was a grade 1 performance.

It was tons better than the 150.2 sundial job Bernardini pulled in the Jim Dandy, despite the huge fig he got for beating up on nothing.

That's really not fair. The track was extremely sloppy and Castellano was literally a statue as he ran around the track. Since when is Bluegrass Cat nothing? Even so, what more could the horse do? How far did you want him to win by?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Betsy

That's really not fair. The track was extremely sloppy and Castellano was literally a statue as he ran around the track. Since when is Bluegrass Cat nothing? Even so, what more could the horse do? How far did you want him to win by?

My point was, or is, not to denigrate Bernardini. I was trying to point out that you can have a slow time and still have what is a really strong performance.

However, Bertrando would have eaten Bluegrass Cat for lunch, and while I don't remember the Bernardini JCGC card/day at all, most often sloppy tracks bring fast times.