Eat Some Crow Cannon

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

It is a nice story but a mirage. He isnt a prospect.

He isn't a prospect because prospects are young, developing players who learn the game. This kid is fk'n Roy Hobbs with mini seasons before being quickly moved up through the system to the bigs.

What would he have to hit with 250-300 AB's to exceed your predictions for him.

[witchdoctor]

Originally Posted by docicu3

Meanwhile ......Chuck who the hell is Daniel Nava and how the hell is he getting time, hitting .444 in left field for the Red Sox without a minor league career of significance?

check out the 5th post.
http://www.letstalkpitching.com/phpB...ic.php?t=13497

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

LOL

The jury is still out...

Funny all these stories about the "year of the pitcher" and you are touting a guy who batters hit .289/.347/.460 against him lifetime.

This is like a 17500 claimer who runs a 88 beyer and all of a sudden he is an allowance horse...

I wasnt going to reply to this thread until I saw your tbred analogy. I was going to say that he is like a grinder. He has no real stuff.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

He isn't a prospect because prospects are young, developing players who learn the game. This kid is fk'n Roy Hobbs with mini seasons before being quickly moved up through the system to the bigs.

What would he have to hit with 250-300 AB's to exceed your predictions for him.

He is a switch hitter who makes a lot of contact. Based on reports he doesnt seem to be a very good runner or fielder. His AAA numbers minus say 15% would be a pretty good guess. At that level he was a .294/.364/.492. He had a 15/43 BB/K ratio there in 220Ab's. I would say if he hits .270/.320./.400 he will have a nice career as a 4th OF type somewhere but he isnt good enough to stick in Boston.

[Patrick333]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

won/loss has a lot more to do with how many runs your team scores than how well you pitched. Of course anyone that insists that kyle kendrick is going to be some great pitcher when virtually all evidence points to the contrary may not understand that.

If he wants to stay in the big leagues I suggest he call Mr McNamara

A pitchers job is to make sure he pitches well enough to win. Nothing else. This kid seems to win more than his share.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Patrick333

A pitchers job is to make sure he pitches well enough to win. Nothing else. This kid seems to win more than his share.

Explain to me how a pitcher knows exactly how many runs his team will score which would seem to be a key component to a teams ability to win?

A pitchers job is run prevention, plain and simple. Kyle Kendrick is below league average at this task. W/L record is a misnomer in many cases, his being a prime example of a pitcher whose record is far greater than his pitching prowess. At least half of a pitchers W/L record relates to something that a pitcher has absoultely nothing to do with, offense. The bullpen is another factor that the starting pitcher has no control over hence some pitchers 'losing' wins if the bullpen struggles.

In evaluating a pitchers ability, w/l record is one of the least accurate measures. This is really simple stuff.

[Patrick333]

I'm not saying he's all-star pitcher. I'm saying he wins. And to me winning the game is what's most important. Give the guy a little credit, he does have a 636 winning %.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Patrick333

I'm not saying he's all-star pitcher. I'm saying he wins. And to me winning the game is what's most important. Give the guy a little credit, he does have a 636 winning %.

LOL

I guess that all the stats and evidence that show he is a subpar major league pitcher are outweighed by his good fortune to have been drafted by a team that scores a ton of runs.

The team is winning those games IN SPITE of him on many occasions.

In 2008 he was 11-9
He had an era of 5.49
He threw 155 innings and allowed 276 base runners which is pretty close to 2 an inning.
103 of those runners wound up scoring.
So on average he allowed a run in 2 of 3 innings pitched (obviously this is an approximation as there were many occasions that more than one run scored in an inning but is a good indication of his ghastly ineffectiveness)

Out of the 55 NL pitchers that pitched at least 140 innings that year he ranked 54th in ERA.
53rd of 55 in WHIP
55th out of 55 in K's

He made 31 starts. In 15 out of those starts he was given run support of 6 runs or better. 4 times they scored 6 for him, twice they scored 7, an astonishing 7 times they scored 8, once scored 9 and once scored 20.

However according to the logic that you are suggesting, he actually had a good year because he was 11-9?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

LOL

I guess that all the stats and evidence that show he is a subpar major league pitcher are outweighed by his good fortune to have been drafted by a team that scores a ton of runs.

The team is winning those games IN SPITE of him on many occasions.

In 2008 he was 11-9
He had an era of 5.49
He threw 155 innings and allowed 276 base runners which is pretty close to 2 an inning.
103 of those runners wound up scoring.
So on average he allowed a run in 2 of 3 innings pitched (obviously this is an approximation as there were many occasions that more than one run scored in an inning but is a good indication of his ghastly ineffectiveness)

Out of the 55 NL pitchers that pitched at least 140 innings that year he ranked 54th in ERA.
53rd of 55 in WHIP
55th out of 55 in K's

He made 31 starts. In 15 out of those starts he was given run support of 6 runs or better. 4 times they scored 6 for him, twice they scored 7, an astonishing 7 times they scored 8, once scored 9 and once scored 20.

However according to the logic that you are suggesting, he actually had a good year because he was 11-9?

could you scout for the cubs..

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

could you scout for the cubs..

Don't they already have enough problems!

[docicu3]

I would say if he hits .270/.320./.400 he will have a nice career as a 4th OF type somewhere but he isnt good enough to stick in Boston.[/quote]


At present .360/ .407/ .680 albeit very early but normally rookies don't get off to this kind of start. If he is any where near these numbers in a month JE goes back in center and the kid gets a more extended look in left.

The town loves the kids humility. I agree it's fairy tale but until they find a hole in his swing to exploit the kid contributes nightly and is growing on people and deserves a chance until either he proves he can or can't play at this level.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by docicu3

At present .360/ .407/ .680 albeit very early but normally rookies don't get off to this kind of start. If he is any where near these numbers in a month JE goes back in center and the kid gets a more extended look in left.

The town loves the kids humility. I agree it's fairy tale but until they find a hole in his swing to exploit the kid contributes nightly and is growing on people and deserves a chance until either he proves he can or can't play at this level.

He can hit that's for sure. But can he hit on a consistent basis and hit with enough power to compensate for his other weaknesses? That is really the big question. It is a great story and though the law of averages probably gets to him at some point, switch hitters who can make contact like he does will always have a job somewhere.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah that is a sign of a great pitcher, pitch one good game then four bad ones...

Want to bet his next start is a 5 inning, 7 hit, 5 run job?

4 innings 6 hits 5 runs. You were way off.

[randallscott35]

It happens. Tougher to get up for bad teams.

[horseofcourse]

well, he's not gonna get the loss which keeps his career winning pct way up there which is all that's important!

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

well, he's not gonna get the loss which keeps his career winning pct way up there which is all that's important!

That is correct.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He can hit that's for sure. But can he hit on a consistent basis and hit with enough power to compensate for his other weaknesses? That is really the big question. It is a great story and though the law of averages probably gets to him at some point, switch hitters who can make contact like he does will always have a job somewhere.

The kid has 2 doubles and 3 more RBI's in 3 AB's tonight off Jimenez who has that ERA of 1 something and is now hitting .382 with an ungodly OPS of 1.109 but only for 34 AB's.

Okay I admit it......I have a full blown man crush on this kid. He looks good striking out with how fast he clears his hips with his approach at the plate. Why was it so hard for this kid to get noticed. He may turn into the position player version of Billy Rohr or David Clyde but he is certainly more by the day than expected and it is fun to watch.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah that is a sign of a great pitcher, pitch one good game then four bad ones...

Want to bet his next start is a 5 inning, 7 hit, 5 run job?

With multiple homers.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

It happens. Tougher to get up for bad teams.

Don't you think when you're the Defending National League Champs (and down by 4 games,) then you should be "up" against anyone? I think he's just an inconsistent individual. Pitchers are weird. Randy Wolf seems to need to get owned before he'll pitch his best.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Don't you think when you're the Defending National League Champs (and down by 4 games,) then you should be "up" against anyone? I think he's just an inconsistent individual. Pitchers are weird. Randy Wolf seems to need to get owned before he'll pitch his best.

I was joking. Find grip.