Royal Ascot:Queen Anne Stakes

[Danzig]

Andy, they said best since miesque. Doesn't mean as good as that one. But I won't argue she's a good one at all, probably the best horse in training this year. I look forward to her threepeat attempt.
And lure was a good one, underrated by many imo.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Andy, they said best since miesque. Doesn't mean as good as that one. But I won't argue she's a good one at all, probably the best horse in training this year. I look forward to her threepeat attempt.
And lure was a good one, underrated by many imo.

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

First of all, there simply aren't that many opportunities for her in Europe, especially at a mile, against her sex.

Second of all, while she is clearly terrific, she also beat Kip Deville in one BC, and Courageous Cat and Justenufhumor in the other. If I'm not mistaken, Miesque absolutely drowned Steinlen in her second BC Mile win...and Lure's first BC Mile was amazing.

She is an extraordinarily good horse. But perhaps a little perspective?

I agree with you, especially with regards to the 2008 running where the American horses were terrible. Last year's field was a lot better and Courageous Cat did run his eyeballs out. Zacinto and the Godolphin horse who had won on World Cup night were both solid horses from Europe and the American contingent was far from terrible.

Now, the 2009 field was nowhere near the quality of some of the fields Da Hoss or Lure beat, let alone Miesque.

NT

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

To be fair rock of Gibraltar probably lost because he was checked behind a horse breaking down at the top of the stretch.

Dansili, is probably the most unlucky miler that should have won a BC race, pre BC watered down version. He was by far the best horse in that race that War Chant won.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I agree with you, especially with regards to the 2008 running where the American horses were terrible. Last year's field was a lot better and Courageous Cat did run his eyeballs out. Zacinto and the Godolphin horse who had won on World Cup night were both solid horses from Europe and the American contingent was far from terrible.

Now, the 2009 field was nowhere near the quality of some of the fields Da Hoss or Lure beat, let alone Miesque.

NT

Zacinto basically bolted and was last in his return this year. He ran a respectable 4th today however. The Godolphin horse was ridiculous. How the hell he won on World Cup Day will remain an eternal mystery.

The whole thing is one of the problems with these internet discussions. People either lack perspective or lose all sense of it. Great horses of the past get routinely dismissed or forgotten whenever the latest horse du jour appears.

[cakes44]

How much better is Goldikova than Starcraft or possibly even GW when he was 3?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by cakes44

How much better is Goldikova than even Starcraft or possibly even GW when he was 3?

I can't judge Euros fairly. But, it does seem, at least at 3, that Zarkava was clearly superior. Now, Zarkava was clearly something special, but still.

It seems the Euros have joined the Rachel/Zenyatta fray by announcing Goldikova is he best mare in the world. I can only imagine what their message boards look like. Sounds like a Sartrean hell to me.

[smuthg]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The whole thing is one of the problems with these internet discussions. People either lack perspective or lose all sense of it. Great horses of the past get routinely dismissed or forgotten whenever the latest horse du jour appears.

Very good point, but it is equally unfair to paint all of the current horses with the same brush, that they aren't as "good" as horses of yesterday, just because they are running today. It is hardly a disservice to Lure and Miesque to say that Goldikova is the best turf miler since Lure or Miesque. I don't recall it being sacrilegious to compare Rachel to Go For Wand and Ruffian last year, and I don’t think that takes anything away from those wonderful fillies.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Very good point, but it is equally unfair to paint all of the current horses with the same brush, that they aren't as "good" as horses of yesterday, just because they are running today. It is hardly a disservice to Lure and Miesque to say that Goldikova is the best turf miler since Lure or Miesque. I don't recall it being sacrilegious to compare Rachel to Go For Wand and Ruffian last year, and I don’t think that takes anything away from those wonderful fillies.

Fair enough.

One thing that is clearly amazing about Goldikova is how long she has held her great form. She might even be better this year than last year. She got drowned last year in the prep she won this year at 1 1/8 plus.

[Indian Charlie]

The trainer of Goldikova, who rode Miesque, publicly stated that he thinks Goldikova is the better of the two.

Goes to show that jockeys, even after moving on to another career, are basically idiotic.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Fair enough.

One thing that is clearly amazing about Goldikova is how long she has held her great form. She might even be better this year than last year. She got drowned last year in the prep she won this year at 1 1/8 plus.

Too much use of the word drowned in your posts. I feel like I'm driving with Ted Kennedy.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

Zarkava and Meisque could be mentioned in the same breath IMO. Both Beasts. To bad Zarkava isnt still racing!!

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I can't judge Euros fairly. But, it does seem, at least at 3, that Zarkava was clearly superior. Now, Zarkava was clearly something special, but still.

It seems the Euros have joined the Rachel/Zenyatta fray by announcing Goldikova is he best mare in the world. I can only imagine what their message boards look like. Sounds like a Sartrean hell to me.

Howard Sartrean?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

One thing that is clearly amazing about Goldikova is how long she has held her great form. She might even be better this year than last year. She got drowned last year in the prep she won this year at 1 1/8 plus.

This is true, and one of the reasons I gravitate towards her rather than a horse like Zarkava, who, while brilliant and likely more talented, had too brief of a career to be an all-time great IMO. I have a soft spot for horses who campaign multiple years, taking on and beating the best nearly every time out. Granted I haven't been watching racing nearly as long as some, but I don't remember many like this one.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is true, and one of the reasons I gravitate towards her rather than a horse like Zarkava, who, while brilliant and likely more talented, had too brief of a career to be an all-time great IMO. I have a soft spot for horses who campaign multiple years, taking on and beating the best nearly every time out. Granted I haven't been watching racing nearly as long as some, but I don't remember many like this one.

Ouija Board was very similar in terms of a multiple year campaign against top-flight horses of both genders.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Oiuja Board was very similar in terms of a multiple year campaign against top-flight horses of both genders.

so was the Diva... though I just dont know how Aussie racing compares to Europe / USA

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

At one mile on the turf she is probably the best horse in training. From 7F to 1 1/8 on dirt Quality Road is the best probably followed by Rachel Alexandra. On synth, at over a mile, it's probably Zenyatta and Rail Trip. Who the " best " of those is total conjecture. They all have somewhat specific talents.

Zarkava drowned her at one mile.

can't argue with any of that.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

This is true, and one of the reasons I gravitate towards her rather than a horse like Zarkava, who, while brilliant and likely more talented, had too brief of a career to be an all-time great IMO. I have a soft spot for horses who campaign multiple years, taking on and beating the best nearly every time out. Granted I haven't been watching racing nearly as long as some, but I don't remember many like this one.

ditto, as well as to parsix and antitrust. horses who go above and beyond, especially for a longer term, will always get more enthusiasm and respect from me. of course you know that joey, since you and i had some real differences of opinion regarding a certain horse......ghostzapper.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ditto, as well as to parsix and antitrust. horses who go above and beyond, especially for a longer term, will always get more enthusiasm and respect from me. of course you know that joey, since you and i had some real differences of opinion regarding a certain horse......ghostzapper.

In rare cases, brilliance can override longevity for me. And yeah, Ouija Board was great as well.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ditto, as well as to parsix and antitrust. horses who go above and beyond, especially for a longer term, will always get more enthusiasm and respect from me. of course you know that joey, since you and i had some real differences of opinion regarding a certain horse......ghostzapper.

i agree with that. But I dont mind stacking up a horse talent wise... which is why I think Zarkava and Meisque could be mentioned in the same breath.. and another reason why I am still very fond of Bernardini.

I really havent seen many horses go above and beyond for the long term in my horse racing lifetime!