Clemens: BigFATLIar

HGH can make women grow chest
and facial hair. Especially younger
women.

This would make older males
avoid Viagra. Except for Clemens.
He liked his wife on HGH.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Arod uses Viagra

Does the HGH give him that side effect?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Listen, I am not one of those people who gets on top of a soapbox to hear themselves talk, but as far as this whole case goes. WHO CARES! Are you telling me that the government doesn't have better things that they can do with their time then to grill people involved with baseball on whether they have done steroids or not. It's baseball's problem and let them try to clean it up. What's next, hearings on if the Patriots really cheated in the super bowl.

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I would say it's really important to do this.We have a huge problem with ethics in this society.The only thing that's valued is money and success(any way you can get it .) This is the reason people are so quick to dismiss the actions of people who cheated to beat people in their chosen profession.Do you like being cheated? Well anyone trying to compete(without taking these drugs) with these guys was cheated.Hank Aaron lost his record to somebody who cheated.Now,you're saying the Congress shouldn't investigate it.I would say if these guys were gunna get properly punished,then the Congress wouldn't have to even be involved.Look at all the Conservative guys yesterday in Congress trying to help out this cheater.That's pathetic.Trying to find a way to help out a Conservative cheater from TEXAS.Well,they can step in the same poo he is in.Go right ahead.The one thing I know is that, by their very nature ,lies breed like rabbits doing speed.It's just the way it is.It's easy to remember the truth.It's hard to keep telling a pack of lies the same way.You would think it would be easy.It isn't .What's easy is telling it the 1st time.This is why they keep asking people to tell the same lies again.They keep asking them something a lil different each time,and he then will have to tell one more lie.Think about it.He is to the point where his story is that Andy Petitte is remembering incorrectly about whether Rocket told him he did this stuff.O.K.? That's how pathetic Rodger's lies are.Do you really think Andy misunderstood,and it was only Clemens wife on the HGH? Really? You think Andy would interpret that conversation incorrectly? This is what happens though.He should of admitted it like the others. Truth is easily remembered.We are much better at remembering it than we are lies.It's a different kind of memory,and that's why they ask you to repeat stories.You tell them in a totally different way when it's fiction.It will be slower,and you will be much grumpier doing it(because the brain has to work harder to remember the details of simple fiction.) One is just more work than the other.

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

Actually I think it is around 70% that believe Roger did as opposed to 30% that don't believe he did. The fact is if the guy lied it is perjury and if any future Congressional hearings are going to have any teeth they have to go after him for it.

There are plenty of other things they could be doing with their time but the majority of them are on issues so divided along party lines that nothing will actually be accomplished with the time spent on that. And even if they accomplish something Bush can just step in and veto it. At least in this they are making some progress. It's a big waste of time no doubt but not as big a waste of time as most of what they normally waste their time on.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Actually I think it is around 70% that believe Roger did as opposed to 30% that don't believe he did. The fact is if the guy lied it is perjury and if any future Congressional hearings are going to have any teeth they have to go after him for it.

There are plenty of other things they could be doing with their time but the majority of them are on issues so divided along party lines that nothing will actually be accomplished with the time spent on that. And even if they accomplish something Bush can just step in and veto it. At least in this they are making some progress. It's a big waste of time no doubt but not as big a waste of time as most of what they normally waste their time on.

Whether he perjured himself is beside the point, IMO. I don't think he should have been up before congress on this issue to even have a chance to perjure himself. This is not a congressional issue. If this was something where they could say that everyone that is found to have used it will go to jail or be banned from the game, then that would be something different. But if every single person mentioned in the Mitchell report came out and said "yes, I did it"..........then what? Nothing. So I don't see the point of the report or the point of the hearings. The report just told us what half of us believed already.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Whether he perjured himself is beside the point, IMO. I don't think he should have been up before congress on this issue to even have a chance to perjure himself. This is not a congressional issue. If this was something where they could say that everyone that is found to have used it will go to jail or be banned from the game, then that would be something different. But if every single person mentioned in the Mitchell report came out and said "yes, I did it"..........then what? Nothing. So I don't see the point of the report or the point of the hearings. The report just told us what half of us believed already.

Whether or not they should have been looking into it in the first place is besides the point. If the guy committed perjury you have to enforce it. If you are arrested for a crime you didn't commit and then kill the officer arresting you to escape does that make it ok because you shouldn't have been arrested in the first place? Obviously that is an extreme scenario but you get my point, if you commit a crime it isn't suddenly erased because maybe you shouldn't have been in that position in the first place.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If they aren't going to do anything about it, why is it important to do this? Right now, half the people believe Clemens did and half believe he didn't. If it comes out that he did, what will be gained? All that I can see gained is that the half that didn't believe he did anything will say "oh, I guess I was wrong". That's it. He won't be punished. Nothing will be gained by the public. If people that are chosen by the public to do services for the public are wasting time and money on this when there are SOOOOOOO many other things that are more important than whether or not a grown man took some drugs to improve himself in a sport, that's a bigger problem in my eyes than what that man did.

There isn't as much as you think(that they can do.) When you got Geedubbya ready to veto anything left of Attilla,then it's a pretty useless situation.They are pretty much treading water until this idiot is gone.I go back to the fact that they broke the law,and aren't being punished for it.So,you should be asking why they aren't being punished for it.If they were being properly punished,then they wouldn't be having hearings.This is a case of overlooking what the rich and powerful did wrong.You're angry it's ending up here,but it's ending up here because others won't punish them in the regular way.That hypocrisy may just end up costing Clemons a lot more than simply using steroids or HGH.He has perjured himself,and now is to the point of talking about "breaking his spirit." I mean he is willing to lie as much as it takes to protect his family from the stigma of him being a cheater.Rich n' powerful think they can do just about anything they want,but we have seen that perjury is not taken lightly.Hard to believe a lawyer didn't try to keep him from stepping into this,but I guess this is how stubborn he is.

[King Glorious]

I don't think we are that far off on this. They should have been punished by baseball. But they weren't. If they could be punished by congress, I would be ok with this. But they can't. So since they can't, why bother?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think we are that far off on this. They should have been punished by baseball. But they weren't. If they could be punished by congress, I would be ok with this. But they can't. So since they can't, why bother?

Whether or not the Mitchell report was necessary or a big waste of time is up for debate. But once the Mitchell report was out and there were people publicly saying the allegations were false they had to investigate into it or risk the whole report being thrown under a black cloud. I did find it interesting though that David Justice also denied the allegations of the Mitchell report, was personally involved with McNamee, and yet wasn't required to testify. Shouldn't he have been pulled into it too if Clemens was?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Does the HGH give him that side effect?

Hey, John Rocker said no way ARod did anything. He is as credible as the trainer guy isnt he?

The funny thing is that HGH has not been proven effective at producing results like steroids have. It is not even hard to get.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Hey, John Rocker said no way ARod did anything. He is as credible as the trainer guy isnt he?

The funny thing is that HGH has not been proven effective at producing results like steroids have. It is not even hard to get.

May not be hard to get,but people need to make sure it can't be found out that you did get it(without a doctor confirming a deficiency.)Anything that is thought to make you look n' feel better is gunna be in demand.They just don't know enough about the effects on the body when you have excess HGH in you.If you take it without having a deficiency,then some think damn near everything starts growing. Could mean your heart enlarges,and for sure the joints will change.There are cancer concerns.I guess we will find out from the results these guys (guinea pigs) get in 15-20 years.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

May not be hard to get,but people need to make sure it can't be found out that you did get it(without a doctor confirming a deficiency.)Anything that is thought to make you look n' feel better is gunna be in demand.They just don't know enough about the effects on the body when you have excess HGH in you.If you take it without having a deficiency,then some think damn near everything starts growing. Could mean your heart enlarges,and for sure the joints will change.There are cancer concerns.I guess we will find out from the results these guys (guinea pigs) get in 15-20 years.

Search thet net for it, you can find about 8,000 places to quickly buy it. Anyone that wants it can just have a good friend get it for them. Going through a trainer who is supplying other people is just dumb cause that is the guy who is going to get busted and have to name names. The effects are still up for debate but it does increase muscle mass which could certainly create a placebo effect. Especially with how mental of a game baseball is.

[Cannon Shell]

The fact that Congress is having hearing on this is troubling. The fact that this is simply political grandstanding over an issue that has no relevence to the American public at large and was not a crime comitted against anyone seems to have been missed by the media except in rare instances. HGH is readily available and just this morning there was a story on CNN about a Dr. in Beverly Hills who "specializes" in antiaging who admitted on camera on national tv that only about 25 % of his customers have a true medical need for it. If there truly are enforcable laws concerning this drug then they dont seem to be enforced. Despite my own personal enjoyment of the hearings there is only flimsy evidence that Congress should be involved with the internal regulations of a private enterprise. The NFL case concerning "spygate" is even a bigger farce. The fact that the NFL destroyed evidence on a technical matter concerning their own regulations after the guilty parties have been repremanded is NOT the business of Arlen Spector or any other Senator or congressman while they are on the federal govt's time. The constant threat of the antitrust excemption is just political bullying. I doubt that it is valid anyway. Other football leagues exist in the Arena league and the USFL and XFL were both failures. I personally find it troublesome that Congress has the time to spend on sports when there are so many other issues facing the country which are much more pressing but not nearly as interesting.

I mean is it in the best interest of the American people that we pursue a perjury case against Roger Clemens? What's next? Chuck Schumer calling for an investigation into the Yankees/Indians game that should have been halted due to flying insects? A congressional inquiry into the TENN/Rutgers womans game the other day when the clock "malfunctioned"?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Search thet net for it, you can find about 8,000 places to quickly buy it. Anyone that wants it can just have a good friend get it for them. Going through a trainer who is supplying other people is just dumb cause that is the guy who is going to get busted and have to name names. The effects are still up for debate but it does increase muscle mass which could certainly create a placebo effect. Especially with how mental of a game baseball is.

http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomi...er-should-you/

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The fact that Congress is having hearing on this is troubling. The fact that this is simply political grandstanding over an issue that has no relevence to the American public at large and was not a crime comitted against anyone seems to have been missed by the media except in rare instances. HGH is readily available and just this morning there was a story on CNN about a Dr. in Beverly Hills who "specializes" in antiaging who admitted on camera on national tv that only about 25 % of his customers have a true medical need for it. If there truly are enforcable laws concerning this drug then they dont seem to be enforced. Despite my own personal enjoyment of the hearings there is only flimsy evidence that Congress should be involved with the internal regulations of a private enterprise. The NFL case concerning "spygate" is even a bigger farce. The fact that the NFL destroyed evidence on a technical matter concerning their own regulations after the guilty parties have been repremanded is NOT the business of Arlen Spector or any other Senator or congressman while they are on the federal govt's time. The constant threat of the antitrust excemption is just political bullying. I doubt that it is valid anyway. Other football leagues exist in the Arena league and the USFL and XFL were both failures. I personally find it troublesome that Congress has the time to spend on sports when there are so many other issues facing the country which are much more pressing but not nearly as interesting.

I mean is it in the best interest of the American people that we pursue a perjury case against Roger Clemens? What's next? Chuck Schumer calling for an investigation into the Yankees/Indians game that should have been halted due to flying insects? A congressional inquiry into the TENN/Rutgers womans game the other day when the clock "malfunctioned"?

Exactly. At least with baseball and HGH, even though the laws aren't enforced, they at least have actual laws. The NFL thing is a complete joke. Not only are they not laws but the regulations of a private league but the guilty party already ADMITTED that they were guilty. It's actually beyond a joke.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Again,it is no surprise a trainer wants to go easy on guys cheating to get an edge on the other competitors in the workplace.I'm sure there are guys that could have made another 5 mil if they had taken these drugs and hung around a couple more years. After 40, it's difficult to keep body fat off,and HGH does do that.That alone would help guys with stamina(whether real physical stamina,or that resulting from the positive mental aspects of being in shape.)

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Again,it is no surprise a trainer wants to go easy on guys cheating to get an edge on the other competitors in the workplace.I'm sure there are guys that could have made another 5 mil if they had taken these drugs and hung around a couple more years. After 40, it's difficult to keep body fat off,and HGH does do that.That alone would help guys with stamina(whether real physical stamina,or that resulting from the positive mental aspects of being in shape.)

At least we dont have to blow people like in the music business...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomi...er-should-you/

Right, hence the placebo effect. A guy is told this stuff will help him, sees his mucle mass increase, and suddenly starts player better cause he believes he is going to be better.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Again,it is no surprise a trainer wants to go easy on guys cheating to get an edge on the other competitors in the workplace.I'm sure there are guys that could have made another 5 mil if they had taken these drugs and hung around a couple more years. After 40, it's difficult to keep body fat off,and HGH does do that.That alone would help guys with stamina(whether real physical stamina,or that resulting from the positive mental aspects of being in shape.)

I'm not getting why you keep saying that people want to go easy on them. I don't think Cannon is saying that at all and I know I'm not. But nobody has said yet what congress can do to them other than go after the ones that denied it with perjury charges. All of the guys that admitted they used it, what can congress do to them? Nothing. And even going after the guys that denied it with perjury charges, is this really the best use of taxpayer money? Most people already believe they are lying anyway so why spend millions in taxpayer money to put them in jail for lying about something that most of us believed they were lying about anyway but still supported, as evidenced by baseball continually setting attendance and revenue records? Maybe you care Scuds and that's fine. But overall, the public believes they cheat and don't really care. There have got to be more pressing issues for congress to tackle than what grown men decide to put in their bodies to gain an edge. The only people they are hurting.....is themselves.