9/27 (SA): AwsmAgn, FrntRnnr, Chndelier, Zenyatta, Rodeo Dr. (G1's)

[Kitan]

Very impressive win. Still not convinced he'll win the Classic, however.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Kitan

Very impressive win. Still not convinced he'll win the Classic, however.

I never understand a comment like this, not picking on you.....its related to price the way I see it. I am not convinced he is going to win, he probably is something like 30-35 percent so if he is 5/2 I could see betting him but he wont be.

No horse is 100% to win a race.

[casp0555]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-awesome-again

some interesting comments inside....

"Asked if he thought he was "double-teamed" by the Baffert horses, Hollendorfer responded: "We're all big boys…It's no big deal for me. Mike will have to settle up with Victor.""

[Indian Charlie]

Might as well have said yes outright. I hope Rome dissects him on air.

[Pants II]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Might as well have said yes outright. I hope Rome dissects him on air.

That wouldn't be good for Bob. His heart might not be able to take the endless trolling from clones.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by casp0555

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...-awesome-again

some interesting comments inside....

"Asked if he thought he was "double-teamed" by the Baffert horses, Hollendorfer responded: "We're all big boys…It's no big deal for me. Mike will have to settle up with Victor.""

Interesting Casp, thanks for posting it. Looks like Espinosa doubled up with his CC ride last week. On that PA Derby note, I wonder why noone puts in a rabbit in Bayerns races to soften him up ?

[pointman]

Per Jay Privman on Twitter, Espinoza has been called in by the stewards to explain his actions yesterday. Wonder if Baffert will be called in too.

EDIT: Privman also tweeted that he spoke to steward Tom Ward, when he asked if they were calling Espinoza in, Ward responded, "yes, and maybe Mr. Baffert too."

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by pointman

Per Jay Privman on Twitter, Espinoza has been called in by the stewards to explain his actions yesterday. Wonder if Baffert will be called in too.

EDIT: Privman also tweeted that he spoke to steward Tom Ward, when he asked if they were calling Espinoza in, Ward responded, "yes, and maybe Mr. Baffert too."

I would make strong examples of both of them, but, of course, that won't happen.

Then again I am in the tiny minority that think woody stephens was an arsehole.

They are going to make the track super Fast on BC day, as usual, and give Baffert horses the advantage anyways.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I would make strong examples of both of them, but, of course, that won't happen.

Then again I am in the tiny minority that think woody stephens was an arsehole.

I agree, they should both be suspended. However, while Espinoza may get a few days since there is no explanation for his actions, I find it hard to believe that they will take any action against the untouchable Baffert. That is a shame since it affects the integrity of the sport.

[Kitan]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I never understand a comment like this, not picking on you.....its related to price the way I see it. I am not convinced he is going to win, he probably is something like 30-35 percent so if he is 5/2 I could see betting him but he wont be.

No horse is 100% to win a race.

I wouldn't say it's related to price but more so popularity. There are some horses who have no or little chance whether they are 50-1 or 1-1. It all comes down to subjectivity.

So you get days for race riding? If this was a claiming race on a Thursday I bet this would never been brought up.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by helicopter11

So you get days for race riding? If this was a claiming race on a Thursday I bet this would never been brought up.

Im with you. Plus if you watch the replay the 2 breaks with the 1. Both Baffert horses he choose not to go duel with a stablemate. Its not like Victor went to the whip to keep up and then float the 4 wide. So instead of going after his stablemate he floats the 1-5 chalk wide. I don't get the problem here at all. I think the people complaining are the same people who say Bafferts a cheater/juicer every time a Baffert horse beats them.

[Danzig]

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ome-again-ride

Bob Baffert trains both Sky Kingdom and Fed Biz, but told the Santa Anita publicity office he had nothing to do with the tactics employed by Espinoza.

"These guys are fierce competitors," Baffert said, alluding to Espinoza, Smith, and others in the jockey colony. "I see it happen to my horses when you have a good one. I didn't tell Victor to do that. He stayed away from my other horse, Fed Biz…Game On Dude, that's why I retired him, because he was starting to get mugged, every race. I didn't cry about it. I just retired him."



no, bob, you cried about it after the race, and then again when you announced his retirement.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ome-again-ride

Bob Baffert trains both Sky Kingdom and Fed Biz, but told the Santa Anita publicity office he had nothing to do with the tactics employed by Espinoza.

"These guys are fierce competitors," Baffert said, alluding to Espinoza, Smith, and others in the jockey colony. "I see it happen to my horses when you have a good one. I didn't tell Victor to do that. He stayed away from my other horse, Fed Biz…Game On Dude, that's why I retired him, because he was starting to get mugged, every race. I didn't cry about it. I just retired him."



no, bob, you cried about it after the race, and then again when you announced his retirement.

And then again after the Goodwood as well.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...ome-again-ride

Bob Baffert trains both Sky Kingdom and Fed Biz, but told the Santa Anita publicity office he had nothing to do with the tactics employed by Espinoza.

"These guys are fierce competitors," Baffert said, alluding to Espinoza, Smith, and others in the jockey colony. "I see it happen to my horses when you have a good one. I didn't tell Victor to do that. He stayed away from my other horse, Fed Biz…Game On Dude, that's why I retired him, because he was starting to get mugged, every race. I didn't cry about it. I just retired him."



no, bob, you cried about it after the race, and then again when you announced his retirement.

Utter horseshit. As someone mentioned on the selections thread. You don't totally take yourself out of the race by "Race Riding". Sky Kingdom basically was eased after he was no longer able to keep up to Shared Belief.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

Im with you. Plus if you watch the replay the 2 breaks with the 1. Both Baffert horses he choose not to go duel with a stablemate. Its not like Victor went to the whip to keep up and then float the 4 wide. So instead of going after his stablemate he floats the 1-5 chalk wide. I don't get the problem here at all. I think the people complaining are the same people who say Bafferts a cheater/juicer every time a Baffert horse beats them.

No matter how hard I try to ignore you, you insist on trying to take cheap shots at me while mischaracterizing what have I previously stated regarding Baffert in response to your never ending moronic comments on this board.

I am not sure if you are trolling or you are just plain stupid, though I believe it is some of both but mostly the latter, however, though you already know my position I will once again state it to avoid others from believing your nonsensical allegations towards me.

You have made many accusations towards Pletcher. I have stated over and again that I see no difference between Pletcher and Baffert. There is no more evidence that Baffert cheats than Pletcher cheats. However, both have very good stock that tend to run astonishingly well which leaves whether they are doing something open to interpretation, but to accuse one but not the other is hypocrisy.

With regard to this incident, Baffert has clearly lied when he said that he didn't complain about the tactics used on Game On Dude. He cried like a baby about it on Byk's show. As he is lying about that, it certainly seems credible that he was in on what Espinoza did to Shared Belief, particularly how it helped Baffert's other horse Fed Biz in the race. The motive is clearly there. And as IC has pointed out, it certainly doesn't seem he is so angry with Espinoza.

The funny thing about it is that you can't recognize the difference between fair tactical race riding and the illegal riding that Espinoza did on Saturday. The tactics used against Game On Dude that Baffert cried about were completely fair tactics, nothing more than connections using the best weapon of their horses, their speed, which they felt gave their horses the best chance to win which sometimes does not work out but often does even when there are several other speed horses in a race.

What Espinoza did cannot be considered race riding at all. Race riding is when you are trying to keep a horse from getting somewhere to give your mount a tactical advantage over another horse. Espinoza was not riding his horse to gain a tactical advantage to win the race, he was clearly riding his horse to prevent Shared Belief from winning the race at the expense of giving his horse any opportunity to win, while what clearly seems to give another horse by the same trainer, Fed Biz, a tactical advantage to win the race. That is a fraud on the betting public who bet Sky Kingdom and he was justifiably suspended for it. But that doesn't mean that Baffert should get away with it because he is insulated by the rider did it defense.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by pointman

What Espinoza did cannot be considered race riding at all. Race riding is when you are trying to keep a horse from getting somewhere to give your mount a tactical advantage over another horse. Espinoza was not riding his horse to gain a tactical advantage to win the race, he was clearly riding his horse to prevent Shared Belief from winning the race at the expense of giving his horse any opportunity to win, while what clearly seems to give another horse by the same trainer, Fed Biz, a tactical advantage to win the race. That is a fraud on the betting public who bet Sky Kingdom and he was justifiably suspended for it.

Totally agree.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pointman

What Espinoza did cannot be considered race riding at all. Race riding is when you are trying to keep a horse from getting somewhere to give your mount a tactical advantage over another horse. Espinoza was not riding his horse to gain a tactical advantage to win the race, he was clearly riding his horse to prevent Shared Belief from winning the race at the expense of giving his horse any opportunity to win, while what clearly seems to give another horse by the same trainer, Fed Biz, a tactical advantage to win the race.

Is that description akin to running a rabbit in a race for whatever reason one is employed? (Soften up a pace type/add speed for a closing stablemate?)

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by pointman

No matter how hard I try to ignore you, you insist on trying to take cheap shots at me while mischaracterizing what have I previously stated regarding Baffert in response to your never ending moronic comments on this board.

I am not sure if you are trolling or you are just plain stupid, though I believe it is some of both but mostly the latter, however, though you already know my position I will once again state it to avoid others from believing your nonsensical allegations towards me.

You have made many accusations towards Pletcher. I have stated over and again that I see no difference between Pletcher and Baffert. There is no more evidence that Baffert cheats than Pletcher cheats. However, both have very good stock that tend to run astonishingly well which leaves whether they are doing something open to interpretation, but to accuse one but not the other is hypocrisy.

With regard to this incident, Baffert has clearly lied when he said that he didn't complain about the tactics used on Game On Dude. He cried like a baby about it on Byk's show. As he is lying about that, it certainly seems credible that he was in on what Espinoza did to Shared Belief, particularly how it helped Baffert's other horse Fed Biz in the race. The motive is clearly there. And as IC has pointed out, it certainly doesn't seem he is so angry with Espinoza.

The funny thing about it is that you can't recognize the difference between fair tactical race riding and the illegal riding that Espinoza did on Saturday. The tactics used against Game On Dude that Baffert cried about were completely fair tactics, nothing more than connections using the best weapon of their horses, their speed, which they felt gave their horses the best chance to win which sometimes does not work out but often does even when there are several other speed horses in a race.

What Espinoza did cannot be considered race riding at all. Race riding is when you are trying to keep a horse from getting somewhere to give your mount a tactical advantage over another horse. Espinoza was not riding his horse to gain a tactical advantage to win the race, he was clearly riding his horse to prevent Shared Belief from winning the race at the expense of giving his horse any opportunity to win, while what clearly seems to give another horse by the same trainer, Fed Biz, a tactical advantage to win the race. That is a fraud on the betting public who bet Sky Kingdom and he was justifiably suspended for it. But that doesn't mean that Baffert should get away with it because he is insulated by the rider did it defense.

I dont think about you at all when I post here, I know that might be hard to understand. I thought it was race riding, again was the 2 supposed to hook the 1 early? How often do two horses from the same barn kill each other in a Grade 1 race? I was not taking a shot at you specifically with the drug comments, you are not the only one here who has said that.