A question on Easy Goer...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

Since he was mentioned earlier,
Skip Away
BC Classic - 110
JC Gold Cup - 100
Woodward - 119
Iselin - 114
Hol Gold Cup - 117
Mass Cap - 121
Pim Special - 118
Gulf Park - 114
Donn - 109

BC Classic - 120
JC Gold Cup - 116
Woodward - 116
Iselin - 115
Whitney - 115
Suburban - 118
Mass Cap - 122
Pim Special - 125
Texas - 92
GPH - 115
Donn - 112

JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodbine - 108
Travers - 111
Haskell - 113
Ohio Dby - 110
Belmont - 105
Preakness - 107
Derby - 87
Bluegrass - 113
Fla Derby - 104
Alw - 100

do you have hers??? you know, the one. the only. personal ensign???

[Bravado2112]

Some other notes:

* Easy Goer's unadjusted fig in the Wood was a 124. They ultimately awarded it a 110 b/c it seemed unlikely that Triple Buck and whoever else finished in the money suddenly ran absurdly high figs of 118-119.

* From Beyer on Speed: "From 86-92, 7 horses ran 123 or better: Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, Precisionist, Turkoman, Best Pal, Phone Trick, & Groovy." (That means the 122 Alysheba ran in the BC Classic was his lifetime top. Alysheba ran a 95 in the BC Juv and a 113 in the Preakness)

* Personal Ensign ran a 115 in the BC Distaff - that's all I have on her although I seem to recall her Whitney being a 115-116 but could be wrong.

* Groovy 131-134 in '87 Roseben & True North.

* Affirmed 128 (lifetime top) is JC Gold Cup vs Spectacular Bid

* Winning Colors = 111 Derby, 106 Preakness, 115 Distaff

* General Assembly 130+ in Travers

[blackthroatedwind]

Sounds like I might be able to convince Beyer to do an article about the kind of numbers good horses used to run and compare them to these recent flashes in the pan in order to provide some perspective. If nothing else I will find out some numbers from him.

[Bravado2112]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sounds like I might be able to convince Beyer to do an article about the kind of numbers good horses used to run and compare them to these recent flashes in the pan in order to provide some perspective. If nothing else I will find out some numbers from him.

If you know him personally, I think some kind of publication listing the figs of some of the best pre-1992 horses would be wonderful (especially 70s and 80s when the info was far less available). I was always surprised he never did that before b/c he seems like the type who's into that type of stuff too. That'd be great if you could find out some additional figs to add to what I posted.

[ArlJim78]

Bravado this has been fascinating, reviewing the data you have brought forward. But at the same time sorta depressing when you stop and realize that we don't have these types of horses/performances anymore.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Here's two more - AP Indy and Xtra Heat

[blackthroatedwind]

For the most part Xtra Heat was slow.

[Bravado2112]

AP INDY
BC Classic - 114
JC Gold Cup - 107
Molson - 93
Belmont - 111
Peter Pan - 108
SA Derby 95
San Rafael - 100

Hol Futurity (not published but seem to recall it being in the 95-98 range)

XTRA HEAT
Fritchie - 99
What a Summer - 105
Garland - 102

BC Sprint - 101
Phoenix - 107
Endine - 99
Str8 Deal - 100
Princess Rooney - 111
Vagrancy - 106
Genuine Risk - 108
Fritchie - 101

Interb - 102
DeFrancis - 106
BC Sprint - 118
SweetnSassy - 120
Endine - 117
Str8 Deal - 113
Test - 100
Prioress - 113
Arctic Cloud - 87
Nassau - 95
Beaumont - 89
Cicada - 90
nothing else above 89

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

For the most part Xtra Heat was slow.

I respectfully disagree, from a filly perspective she was one of the fastest I've ever seen, especially in her late 3YO year. Granted it wasn't a classic revival but her (first) BC Sprint was pretty heady.

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Bravado this has been fascinating, reviewing the data you have brought forward. But at the same time sorta depressing when you stop and realize that we don't have these types of horses/performances anymore.

I don't have Bernie's BSFs in front of me, but he ran 5 straight races between 113 and 117. With slight improvement from 3 to 4, it could be expected that he would run 116 to 120 consistently, but we will never know.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

how about risen star/pine bluff./ caveat/creme fresch

[philcski]

If you read Beyer's books, he hand wrote a lot of figures in the PP's he includes for study- for example i know General Assembly was a 134 in the Travers.

I have a sense that some of the figures are MUCH higher than what he would award now- which means he either (a) revised down his formula somewhat or ( b ) interjects more human decisionmaking into the final variant selections than before.

For example, Rockhill Native earned a 119 for his Young America win at 2. No 2YO has come even close to that in the last 15 years. My first love as a fan of the game, Devil's Bag, had several in this range as well.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

I don't have Bernie's BSFs in front of me, but he ran 5 straight races between 113 and 117. With slight improvement from 3 to 4, it could be expected that he would run 116 to 120 consistently, but we will never know.

He could have. Often the numbers take another jump as a four year old.
No one is happy that we will not be able to find out.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sounds like I might be able to convince Beyer to do an article about the kind of numbers good horses used to run and compare them to these recent flashes in the pan in order to provide some perspective. If nothing else I will find out some numbers from him.

That's an excellent idea. I'm sure it would be a popular read.

I'm also interested in whether Beyer thinks the numbers have suffered deflation over the years, or whether today's numbers really can be compared to those of 20-30 years ago.

--Dunbar