PETA undercover in Asmussen's barn - Whoa!

[Danzig]

I would think they would have already addressed this....surprised they hadn't yet. Asmussen should have them run under another trainer's name.
How many chances is this sport willing to give a person to sully racing?
They might want to think again how hall eligibility. I was appalled when his name was listed on the ballot.

[Jay Frederick]

Because PETA may or may not try and embarrass Asmussen, he should stay away from the Oaks where he trains the probable favorite and the Derby where he might have one of the favorites?

I don't think so.

What if he doesn't show up, but both of the horses win? Will that be okay? The right thing is for Asmussen to continue to do his job and see how the entire thing unfolds.

While we're at it, I'm pretty sure a lot of the horses running those two days are going to be trained by trainers with various medication infractions. Should they not show up either?

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The right thing is for Asmussen to continue to do his job and see how the entire thing unfolds.

To me that's indicative of the big problem with the sport. Respectfully, of course.

If any actions are ever going to be put into motion, the time to do it is now. Otherwise it's just business as usual save the ramblings of a few individuals about what the sport needs to do.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Because PETA may or may not try and embarrass Asmussen, he should stay away from the Oaks where he trains the probable favorite and the Derby where he might have one of the favorites?

I don't think so.

What if he doesn't show up, but both of the horses win? Will that be okay? The right thing is for Asmussen to continue to do his job and see how the entire thing unfolds.

While we're at it, I'm pretty sure a lot of the horses running those two days are going to be trained by trainers with various medication infractions. Should they not show up either?

I agree!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

Because PETA may or may not try and embarrass Asmussen, he should stay away from the Oaks where he trains the probable favorite and the Derby where he might have one of the favorites?

I don't think so.

What if he doesn't show up, but both of the horses win? Will that be okay? The right thing is for Asmussen to continue to do his job and see how the entire thing unfolds.

While we're at it, I'm pretty sure a lot of the horses running those two days are going to be trained by trainers with various medication infractions. Should they not show up either?

he does enough embarrassing himself, peta doesn't need to help him.

it's a huge two days for the sport, i'd hate to see his issues have a negative affect on the largest racing day of the year. the sport doesn't need a black eye, especially at the derby when there's so much more media attention.
and yes, lots of trainers get infractions. not too many get so many, or several 6 month suspensions that they serve concurrently...and i doubt very many get derby horses either.
it's too bad that owners continue to use some of these trainers, who break rules repeatedly...heck, that's probably why some owners hire some trainers-they want to win no matter what. and we all know the saying ' if you're not cheating, you're not trying'.

people step away from their jobs all the time while being investigated. it doesn't mean they've been found guilty or indicate guilt in any way.

[dellinger63]

I may be in the minority but think Asmussen should be at the derby and with a horse if he has one entered. The PETA video outside of the buzzer talk shows and proves nothing other than possible illegal alien hiring. The NTRA etc. shouldn't be involved in the investigation, the U.S. Department of Labor should.

Of course if they go at Asmussen for hiring illegals they mine has well cancel the derby and horse racing all together, at least for the summer, unless PETA has 1,000's of undercover operatives to fill in.

I also have no problem with a trainer who among others had Rachael and Curlin in his barn making the HOF.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I also have no problem with a trainer who among others had Rachael and Curlin in his barn making the HOF.

But with an asterisk.
Both horses were broken and brought along by other barns.
I believe he got Curlin after his eye-catching debut, but obviously got Rachel long after she was a bonafide superstar.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

But with an asterisk.
Both horses were broken and brought along by other barns.
I believe he got Curlin after his eye-catching debut, but obviously got Rachel long after she was a bonafide superstar.

yes, with an asterisk. just like if barry bonds ever went in the baseball hof.
the two horses should get in...but their last trainer? if it were up to me, no.

sports say they want to be clean...yet, they allow repeat offenders to stay after slaps on the wrist. talking out of both sides of their mouths.
people say they want it cleaned up, and then repeatedly excuse bad behavior and those who engage in it over and over. asmussen has a lengthy record, yet he still has defenders. makes no sense to me.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by lemoncrush

But with an asterisk.
Both horses were broken and brought along by other barns.
I believe he got Curlin after his eye-catching debut, but obviously got Rachel long after she was a bonafide superstar.

You might as well asterisk all horses then since someone else prepped them and broke them, not to mention the tremendous amount of work a lay-up farm does for the horse.

More recently, I'm impressed with the horse that Tapiture has become. A couple months ago, he was a bad actor. Someone has done a fine job schooling this colt.

[lemoncrush]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

You might as well asterisk all horses then since someone else prepped them and broke them, not to mention the tremendous amount of work a lay-up farm does for the horse.

More recently, I'm impressed with the horse that Tapiture has become. A couple months ago, he was a bad actor. Someone has done a fine job schooling this colt.

Of course, but I wouldn't use Curlin and Rachel as two examples of oustanding training achievement by Assumussen.

Anyone could have done well with those two horses.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I may be in the minority but think Asmussen should be at the derby and with a horse if he has one entered. The PETA video outside of the buzzer talk shows and proves nothing other than possible illegal alien hiring. The NTRA etc. shouldn't be involved in the investigation, the U.S. Department of Labor should.

Of course if they go at Asmussen for hiring illegals they mine has well cancel the derby and horse racing all together, at least for the summer, unless PETA has 1,000's of undercover operatives to fill in.

I also have no problem with a trainer who among others had Rachael and Curlin in his barn making the HOF.

You're not in the minority.

Nothing is going to be accomplished by him not showing up. The story will still exist, the attention will still be paid to it by the media, and the horses will still be trained by him.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

You're not in the minority.

Nothing is going to be accomplished by him not showing up. The story will still exist, the attention will still be paid to it by the media, and the horses will still be trained by him.

which is all too bad.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Danzig

which is all too bad.

So what is your solution? That he be banned from the game for employing a foul-mouthed assistant who intimated that they use a legal drug on an undisclosed number of horses? For offenses which occurred years ago for which he has served the suspension handed to him in that jurisdiction?

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he does enough embarrassing himself, peta doesn't need to help him.

it's a huge two days for the sport, i'd hate to see his issues have a negative affect on the largest racing day of the year. the sport doesn't need a black eye, especially at the derby when there's so much more media attention.
and yes, lots of trainers get infractions. not too many get so many, or several 6 month suspensions that they serve concurrently...and i doubt very many get derby horses either.
it's too bad that owners continue to use some of these trainers, who break rules repeatedly...heck, that's probably why some owners hire some trainers-they want to win no matter what. and we all know the saying ' if you're not cheating, you're not trying'.

people step away from their jobs all the time while being investigated. it doesn't mean they've been found guilty or indicate guilt in any way.

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

you think that's a correct summation of the video?


you have a multiple violator of many and sundry rules of the sport. to the point where several racing jurisdictions had given him longer than normal suspensions. too bad they allowed him to serve those sentences concurrently, rather than consecutively.
then, you have the sport who says it wants to 'clean up' have this 'gentleman' on its hall of fame ballot. you have a video and a 275 page report, leading to the firing of an almost two decade long top assistant. the loss of a big owner with deep pockets, and two racing jurisdictions opening investigations.
yeah, it's just profanity....
he should not be there derby and oaks day. it's too bad owners hire him, give their stock to him. it's like hiring bobby petrino-whose fault is it when things go wrong because of ethics? the snake you hired, or you for hiring him?
an assistant should saddle, and he should stay out of the glare. will it get mention? of course. should he be there so they can add questions of why he's there along with all the rest of the mess? no.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you think that's a correct summation of the video?


you have a multiple violator of many and sundry rules of the sport. to the point where several racing jurisdictions had given him longer than normal suspensions. too bad they allowed him to serve those sentences concurrently, rather than consecutively.
then, you have the sport who says it wants to 'clean up' have this 'gentleman' on its hall of fame ballot. you have a video and a 275 page report, leading to the firing of an almost two decade long top assistant. the loss of a big owner with deep pockets, and two racing jurisdictions opening investigations.
yeah, it's just profanity....
he should not be there derby and oaks day. it's too bad owners hire him, give their stock to him. it's like hiring bobby petrino-whose fault is it when things go wrong because of ethics? the snake you hired, or you for hiring him?
an assistant should saddle, and he should stay out of the glare. will it get mention? of course. should he be there so they can add questions of why he's there along with all the rest of the mess? no.

It's a tape that has been doctored up. His assistant being fired was a PR move all the way.

What in that tape warrants him to step away from his job? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I get that he's a repeat offender and I'll mention again that I am not defending him or his actions.

But taking personal feelings about him out of the equation for a second, what has he done wrong based on the video? Running horses who aren't 100%? There'd be no races ever if that was the case.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

It's a tape that has been doctored up. His assistant being fired was a PR move all the way.

What in that tape warrants him to step away from his job? That's what I'm trying to figure out. I get that he's a repeat offender and I'll mention again that I am not defending him or his actions.

But taking personal feelings about him out of the equation for a second, what has he done wrong based on the video? Running horses who aren't 100%? There'd be no races ever if that was the case.

no, it's a tape that's been edited. not doctored. no one is denying anything that was said.
i think you're still oversimplifying. there's more to it than them saying they ran horses at less than 100%.
it's not just that tape that has me saying he should stay away. two racing jurisdictions, two of the largest in the country (one being ky) are conducting investigations based on the video and the report compiled by peta.

yes, it's peta. so, we just ignore the entire message because we don't like the messenger? we just conduct business as usual?
doing the right thing isn't always easy. sometimes it's painful. but at this point, i think the sport would be better off if people like SA were not involved.
had the kid gloves come off several years back, we wouldn't be having this discussion now. people keep saying we don't want the feds invovled. well, talk is cheap. keep turning a blind eye, and then we can some day discuss why things went south.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Jay Frederick

The reality is that if PETA is going to try and embarrass him or the sport, they will do it whether he is there or not. Especially if he has horses running in the big races. I'm sure there will be something mentioned in the broadcast about it. That's going to happen if he attends or doesn't.

I'm not defending Asmussen or his record. Just don't see why he should have to step away from his job because a tape surfaced with where one of his employees swore a lot.

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

thanks again.

but, the bigger problem than if he's there on derby day....
why are these trainers given pass after pass? why do owners hire them? when will the sport do something? or does it only say it will do something, but not really do anything, because they don't want to irritate the owners? they have (in some cases) pretty deep pockets. if they take their dough and go home, that hurts racing. but so do crooked trainers.
the trainers who cheat don't just affect derby day...they don't just have an affect when peta has a video. it's a constant problem, day in and day out at tracks everywhere.

asmussen isn't the problem. he's one of the symptoms of the problem.
why don't owners understand that there are good quality trainers without the clouds of suspicion? that you can win while doing it right?

does anyone think peta didn't know what they were doing by going after this particular trainer? people say 'oh, it's peta' because what else can they say? they did well in choosing who they chose. anyone who tries to defend the guy is going to get called out for defending someone who is a repeat offender of the rules of the sport.

[Jay Frederick]

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat

Just wanted to say yes I agree, they will whether he is there of not.

That said it's a question of scale.

If he isn't there? Some of these...



... a small but very vocal group of protesters, a bit of coverage.

If he is there though?

Whoa it has the potential to get very ugly very quickly and his mere presence will show anyone who cares to pay attention that the sport, as a whole, does NOTHING when confronted with issues such as this.

Again, I respectfully agree with Danzig's post above.

And I respectfully disagree.

Part of racings problem has been overreacting (synthetic tracks are a great example of this) anytime we start to get some bad press.

Wanting someone to not show up for work on Derby Day because of that tape screams of overreaction to me.