Rainbow 6

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I agree about the conspiracy theory being ridiculous, but so is citing the chart caller as evidence.

Really? The official transcript of the race is a ridiculous reference point?

So an impartial view of the race by a professional with years of experience, a good vantage point, and access to various camera angles of the race isn't a valid source in your eyes?

Please explain how the chart callers interpretation has no validity since it is his job to describe the race for the official record?

If there is a hearing about this incident it is a sure bet that the chart will be referred to as "evidence".

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really? The official transcript of the race is a ridiculous reference point?

So an impartial view of the race by a professional with years of experience, a good vantage point, and access to various camera angles of the race isn't a valid source in your eyes?

Please explain how the chart callers interpretation has no validity since it is his job to describe the race for the official record?

If there is a hearing about this incident it is a sure bet that the chart will be referred to as "evidence".

That would all be well and good if it were realistic, but I've seen too many situations where the chart caller goes out of the way to agree with the stewards no matter how questionable (or even bad) the call.

Are you really going to pretend all chart callers do a good job? Do they really use all the camera angles available and still get the chart out in 15 minutes?

[randallscott35]

Chart callers miss a lot. Some six dollar an hour guy is not deciding a 1.6 million prize here. Stewards do. And they haven't read the chart call when they make their decision. Obviously.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Chart callers miss a lot. Some six dollar an hour guy is not deciding a 1.6 million prize here. Stewards do. And they haven't read the chart call when they make their decision. Obviously.

They must have missed all those breakdowns that you envisioned.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They must have missed all those breakdowns that you envisioned.

Good one Chuck...One is too many.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

That would all be well and good if it were realistic, but I've seen too many situations where the chart caller goes out of the way to agree with the stewards no matter how questionable (or even bad) the call.

Are you really going to pretend all chart callers do a good job? Do they really use all the camera angles available and still get the chart out in 15 minutes?

How would you possibly know this?

Are you going to pretend that we should just discount the charts on the off chance that caller isnt doing a good job?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How would you possibly know this?

Are you going to pretend that we should just discount the charts on the off chance that caller isnt doing a good job?

Who said we should discount charts?

I would bet I follow the charts at all tracks a LOT closer than you do. Most do a good job given the time allowed. But if there wasn't a rush to get charts out, they could be much better.

But, this has nothing to do with charts guys commenting on DQ / non DQ situations. Charts are almost always tailored in these situations to follow the opinion of the stewards. This wasn't always the case, but in the last few years, it has become the norm.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Who said we should discount charts?

I would bet I follow the charts at all tracks a LOT closer than you do. Most do a good job given the time allowed. But if there wasn't a rush to get charts out, they could be much better.

But, this has nothing to do with charts guys commenting on DQ / non DQ situations. Charts are almost always tailored in these situations to follow the opinion of the stewards. This wasn't always the case, but in the last few years, it has become the norm.

So you are essentially saying that there is a conspiracy between chart callers and stewards at various tracks throughout the country to get on the same page concerning DQ's?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So you are essentially saying that there is a conspiracy between chart callers and stewards at various tracks throughout the country to get on the same page concerning DQ's?

I'm saying in my opinion of watching lots of replays and reading lots of charts, that when a foul is involved, the chart caller will almost always reflect the opinion of the stewards. That is my experience. Why, I have no idea. I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just stating what I see. I project figures for a lot of horses, so when there is trouble I go to watch and see how much or how little of an impact I think it had.

A decade ago, it was pretty common that a chart caller would make it clear if he disagreed with a steward's decision. Today, not nearly as much. Do you disagree? I can't remember a single one recently.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I'm saying in my opinion of watching lots of replays and reading lots of charts, that when a foul is involved, the chart caller will almost always reflect the opinion of the stewards. That is my experience. Why, I have no idea. I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just stating what I see. I project figures for a lot of horses, so when there is trouble I go to watch and see how much or how little of an impact I think it had.

A decade ago, it was pretty common that a chart caller would make it clear if he disagreed with a steward's decision. Today, not nearly as much. Do you disagree? I can't remember a single one recently.

Wouldnt you say the vast majority of DQ's are pretty clear cut as to what happened? Especially since the camera's are so much better than they used to be?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Who said we should discount charts?

Well you did when you said that it was ridiculous to state the chartcallers opinion

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well you did when you said that it was ridiculous to state the chartcallers opinion

Of that, yes, but not the charts as a whole. Sorry if it came across that way.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Of that, yes, but not the charts as a whole. Sorry if it came across that way.

So Chuck Streva's chart for that particular race is ridiculous to use as an example of an independent opinion of the race because you feel there is collusion between Stewards and chart callers regarding DQ's?

In other words if the horse hadn't come down Chuck would have worded the chart in a different manner?