2013-2014 NBA Season

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your assertions are silly. He is playing against the other teams best players not the backups now. We are talking about a guy with 15 NBA starts. In case you hadn't noticed that Durant guy is taking an awful lot of shots lately.

This isnt high school. He is playing in higher leverage situations now and the last thing you want is him to press for better numbers especially considering that Derrick Fischer is your only other option.

This idea that you have that Jackson's play since starting has somehow cost him money 2 years from now is bizarre. Believe me he is going to get a lot more money that a guy off the bench not named Ginobelli is going to get. Like I said before he is looking at 8 million a year and a starting gig somewhere else.

With the extra playing time he has proven to be in the Brandon Jennings/ Brandon Knight category. Those types of guys are young starters making 8 million plus a year.

Jackson played many minutes against other team's starters. That is so silly, to act like he only ever plays against back ups. He has had some very good games against other teams starters WITH KD and Russ on the floor. That is the difference between making 12-14 million and 6-8 million. At this point, he is showing he isn't really that guy that can do it on his own. Maybe it will change after next year, maybe not.

I never said he wouldn't make 8 million. But if he plays better, as many expected (not you of course, oh mighty seer), he could make plenty more. There was plenty of talk nationally that Reggie was playing himself out of OKC back in December.

If all he ever turns out to be is a Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings, he'll be gone. They are overpaid for what they bring, and Presti won't overpay.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Jackson played many minutes against other team's starters. That is so silly, to act like he only ever plays against back ups. He has had some very good games against other teams starters WITH KD and Russ on the floor. That is the difference between making 12-14 million and 6-8 million. At this point, he is showing he isn't really that guy that can do it on his own. Maybe it will change after next year, maybe not.

I never said he wouldn't make 8 million. But if he plays better, as many expected (not you of course, oh mighty seer), he could make plenty more. There was plenty of talk nationally that Reggie was playing himself out of OKC back in December.

If all he ever turns out to be is a Brandon Knight or Brandon Jennings, he'll be gone. They are overpaid for what they bring, and Presti won't overpay.

That backups play a lot against other backups is a pretty basic theory. Didn't you just say that Westbrook sat a lot of 4th quarters out in blowouts? Wouldnt his backup being playing a lot of those blowout minutes? How can it be both?

If you or anyone else thought that Reggie Jackson was worth 12-14 million a year or was going to be worth that there is just no point discussing the topic any further.

Brandon Knight and Brandon Jennings arent worth 8 million a year but Jackson might be worth 14 million? Again outside of being a blind homer who thinks every Thunder 6th man is going to develop into an all star why would anyone think that Jackson would be anything more than what he is?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That backups play a lot against other backups is a pretty basic theory. Didn't you just say that Westbrook sat a lot of 4th quarters out in blowouts? Wouldnt his backup being playing a lot of those blowout minutes? How can it be both?

If you or anyone else thought that Reggie Jackson was worth 12-14 million a year or was going to be worth that there is just no point discussing the topic any further.

Brandon Knight and Brandon Jennings arent worth 8 million a year but Jackson might be worth 14 million? Again outside of being a blind homer who thinks every Thunder 6th man is going to develop into an all star why would anyone think that Jackson would be anything more than what he is?

Do you ever actually read anything and try to understand what is being said, or do you just like to spin it to what you want to read. I never said Jackson was worth 12-14 million. I said had he stepped in and played at the same level he did as a bench player, he would have been. It isn't like I was the only person saying that.

He was averaging 13 or 14 a game in backup minutes. Had he played an extra 6-7 minutes a game and raised that to 18 and 6 or 7 assists, his value would have went up. I never said it WOULD happen, but he had certainly played well enough that it COULD have happened...except of course to you who had him pegged correctly all along, as you are never wrong about anything.

By the way, pretty funny he got torched on D last night. Guess you are wrong once in a while.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Do you ever actually read anything and try to understand what is being said, or do you just like to spin it to what you want to read. I never said Jackson was worth 12-14 million. I said had he stepped in and played at the same level he did as a bench player, he would have been. It isn't like I was the only person saying that.

He was averaging 13 or 14 a game in backup minutes. Had he played an extra 6-7 minutes a game and raised that to 18 and 6 or 7 assists, his value would have went up. I never said it WOULD happen, but he had certainly played well enough that it COULD have happened...except of course to you who had him pegged correctly all along, as you are never wrong about anything.

By the way, pretty funny he got torched on D last night. Guess you are wrong once in a while.

Your insistence on strictly using your opinion and ignoring the numbers leads me to ask the following questions:
Do you think that Jackson is any good?
Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick
Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)
Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player?
If no did you ever?
If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games?

By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Your insistence on strictly using your opinion and ignoring the numbers leads me to ask the following questions:
Do you think that Jackson is any good?
Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick
Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)
Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player?
If no did you ever?
If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games?

By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor.

Nice, typical passive aggressive shot. I've used plenty of numbers, just not ones you like.

I'll humor you and answer, why I have no idea.

Do you think that Jackson is any good? yes, though "any good" is not really much of a question.

Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick No doubt about it

Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)Of course he will

Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player? No

If no did you ever? I did not think he was, and have said so often with Thunder fans. But many people did, including national basketball guys that actually follow the game (not guys like Barkley and Shaq). I thought it was possible he could play himself into that range, but not likely.

If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games? I watch all the games, usually twice. I find it funny you think you know more about OKC players than I do because you sort some advanced stats.


By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor. And why, exactly, wasn't he on the floor? Because he was getting torched.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nice, typical passive aggressive shot. I've used plenty of numbers, just not ones you like.

I'll humor you and answer, why I have no idea.

Do you think that Jackson is any good? yes, though "any good" is not really much of a question.

Do you think that he is an $5 million a year player at his current level or with just a slight uptick No doubt about it

Do you think he will get an 8 million or so offer after next year if all remains the same (no injuries to him or another key player)Of course he will

Do you think that he has has the ability to be a $12-$14 million dollar a year player? No

If no did you ever? I did not think he was, and have said so often with Thunder fans. But many people did, including national basketball guys that actually follow the game (not guys like Barkley and Shaq). I thought it was possible he could play himself into that range, but not likely.

If yes what makes you think that other than you watch a bunch of OKC games? I watch all the games, usually twice. I find it funny you think you know more about OKC players than I do because you sort some advanced stats.


By the way while he didn't play particularly good individual defense, 15 of Thomas' 1st half points were scored while Jackson wasn't on the floor. And why, exactly, wasn't he on the floor? Because he was getting torched.

Please name one guy who anyone has remotely heard of that thought Jackson was possibly a 12-14 million dollar a year player? He was a 23% 3 point shooter coming into this year and he is 6'3". This was never the 2nd coming of Harden and I don't know anyone and never read anywhere that thought that.

Guys who play 32 minutes a game play 8 minutes a quarter.

[Duvalier]

I saw where the Wizards may look to get Greg Monroe, acquiring him would pretty much lock up the 3 seed in the East for Washington.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Guys who play 32 minutes a game play 8 minutes a quarter.

Well no **** Chuck.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Please name one guy who anyone has remotely heard of that thought Jackson was possibly a 12-14 million dollar a year player? He was a 23% 3 point shooter coming into this year and he is 6'3". This was never the 2nd coming of Harden and I don't know anyone and never read anywhere that thought that.

As for this part, you don't find anyone talking specific numbers. I've seen a few articles mentioning him as a potential all-star (don't agree), and that the Thunder will have to be creative to keep him. If you are right and he would only be offered around 8 per season, then him leaving was never a real concern. OKC can and will do that in a heartbeat. But you can find tons of articles around that indicate he was playing himself out of his role here, meaning OKC wouldn't be able to pay him. That means 8 per year was not the number most were projecting, or even close to that. About the closest I've seen to mentioning actual numbers is that he "isn't a max guy", which I don't think anybody ever thought. The thing is, it only takes one team to agree he is a potential all star and he'll get overpaid.

Nobody ever said he was Harden, but there are several articles out there comparing their production with OKC, and the numbers are close. It wasn't the craziest thing in the world to think Jackson's numbers would rise given extra minutes. He averaged 14.2 PPG in December and 3.6 assists in 26.5 minutes. In January, his minutes went to 31.5, but his PPG only went up 0.9, and his assists 0.6. It wasn't the craziest thing to think he would play 35 minutes a game, and at the same rate he would have averaged 19.5 and 4.8. I don't really think his career 3P% is relevant as a young player. This year is what he will be judged on in that area, and he is average and improving.

His erratic defense has kept his minutes down, and he hasn't played as well against starters. But again, it was possible, and had he done that his price tag would have gone up. It isn't like no bench player has ever stepped into a starting role and increased production. It isn't like he didn't have some big games this year in the 4Q against other teams starters, including a couple monster games against the Spurs.

If Westbrook never missed time, and Jackson stayed in the same role, it is likely that Jackson would have priced himself out of OKC. Somebody would have offered him too much money based on his play in that role, thinking he could do even more as a starter. Now, that is pretty clearly unlikely. That is what I meant by my "saved OKC money" comment.

[Cannon Shell]

It is pretty clear what Jackson is at this point.
He is a small SG with some PG skills who needs to continue to improve his 3 point shooting. While his sample size is still relatively small he clearly has the physical tools and ability to be a starting level player in the NBA. There are a few guys who are physically the same size and with similar skill sets that are making roughly 8 million a year which is what Jackson will most likely command unless his game just craters or he gets hurt. While he isn't necessarily young for a 3rd year player he surely has more improvement left in him which will probably price him out of the Thunder's ability to pay him and may let him walk if he gets a big offer in restricted free agency. Of course a lot of what OKC does with his contract depends on the status of Westbrook's knee. Who knows if they are spooked maybe they offer him an extention after this year?

Check back on this in 2 years.