Tom Noonan blog

[parsixfarms]

This sort of view on the Baffert situation is the real problem: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-121...#axzz2n4vhFwAj.

So long as the racing media and many of the sport's "leaders" act as if guys like Baffert and Pletcher are bigger than the sport and look the other way, there is an open field for the Joe Drapes of the world to address the issues that they want to ignore.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

This sort of view on the Baffert situation is the real problem: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-121...#axzz2n4vhFwAj.

So long as the racing media and many of the sport's "leaders" act as if guys like Baffert and Pletcher are bigger than the sport and look the other way, there is an open field for the Joe Drapes of the world to address the issues that they want to ignore.

They are bigger than the sport for the most part. They are our "too big to fail" banks.

The essential issue here is that very few people have any clue as to what health issues are for racehorses or what options exist for their treatment. How people can come to conclusions about what should be done without any real understanding of the issue at hand, just the preception of the issue, seems to be a recipe for disaster.

Ok Baffert was giving his horses thyroid powder and he stopped and they stopped croaking. Must be indiscriminate use of thyroid powder right? Well why don't any other trainers horses die form this? I have used thyroid powder on hundreds of horses and none died. I don't know another trainer or vet who has ever had horse die due to thyroid powder. I do know that if I was using something that I believed potentially was causing my horses to die I'd much rather have something relatively innocuous like thyrol-L take the blame rather than the real culprit. The conclusion drawn is that he was giving thyroid powder to all his horses and it caused 7 to die because Rick Arthur mentioned it as unusual but he did so in releasing a report stating that there was no smoking gun.

The "17 shots" the Pletcher horse got over the period of time are also hardly something that a vet wouldn't prescribe or directly caused any issues.

-1 of the shots was for Adequan which is preventative medicine
-3 of the shots were for Hylauronic acid in the stifles. This is a single procedure done 5-7 days before the race and three shots are required because the joint is large and splitting the does into three areas works better so that the entire joint is lubricated. Horses dont die from broken stifles.
-2 of the shots were sedatives used to calm the horse to allow the vet to do the procedure on the stifles safely.
-2 of the shots were for banamine which is an anti-inflammatory medications. -1 of these banamine shots would be given when doing the procedure on the stifles to lessen the potential of inflammation in the area where the needle goes into the joint. The other was given 48 hours before.
-2 of the shots given were lasix and based on another medication given prerace it appears that the horse had a history of bleeding as 1 was given a week out when the horse presumably had his last work before the race.
-1 was dexamethasone/cortisone also an anti-inflammatory given when work was done on the stifles.
-1 was Estrone which is a hormone given 48 hours before race to help prevent bleeding.
-2 the last 2 shots were for vitamin B-1 and for Calcium which help calm a horse before the race.

So I'm sure that some will be aghast at all those shots being given but they all have a viable reason for being used and the vast majority of them were given during one procedure. The horse appeared to have stifle issues and bled. Often stifle issues are due to conformation issues and dont just go away with rest. The idea that a vet was somehow forced into doing these treatments is simply not reality. There is this misconception that horses are either sound or unsound like a black and white deal. Truth is that they all deal with unsoundness of some degree at some point. It may be as simple as a grabbed quarter but when they arent sound they need treatment. Horses with not so great conformation will need more help as the concussion absorbed by their legs is distributed through the leg in a less than ideal manner.

[cmorioles]

Two things...first, I don't think many really believe the Baffert horses died because of the thyroid stuff. It is just a convenient excuse. Two, I have no doubt horses are being given stuff they don't need way more often than they should. There is plenty of training via chemistry going on, and it is going to blow up in the sport's face eventually.

As for the horses with 17 shots, explained or not, that is never going to sound good to the public. Like it or not we need to worry about image as much as reality, and that image sucks.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Two things...first, I don't think many really believe the Baffert horses died because of the thyroid stuff. It is just a convenient excuse. Two, I have no doubt horses are being given stuff they don't need way more often than they should. There is plenty of training via chemistry going on, and it is going to blow up in the sport's face eventually.

As for the horses with 17 shots, explained or not, that is never going to sound good to the public. Like it or not we need to worry about image as much as reality, and that image sucks.

The training via chemistry has nothing to do with banamine or vitamin B1 and calcium shots. It is like cracking down on crime by lowering speed limits.

I dont think that the public is ever going to believe the game is on the up and up. We more or less took steroid usage out of the game and it not only didnt make a dent it never even gets a mention. There is never going to be a 100% clean situation and the USADA and its tactics will assure that the perception survives. As long as any horses break down and trainers get positive tests or even short priced favorites lose or longshots come in the public will believe what they believe.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Two things...first, I don't think many really believe the Baffert horses died because of the thyroid stuff. It is just a convenient excuse. Two, I have no doubt horses are being given stuff they don't need way more often than they should. There is plenty of training via chemistry going on, and it is going to blow up in the sport's face eventually.

As for the horses with 17 shots, explained or not, that is never going to sound good to the public. Like it or not we need to worry about image as much as reality, and that image sucks.

but we don't need to skip treating horses because people with no clue think that shots are a problem.
if racing really wanted to clean up, they'd quit letting repeat offenders stay in the game. change fine structures to percentage of money won, instead of a flat fee. there has to be consequences to make people stop doing what they're doing.
problem is, any time you find a test, someone comes up with a new drug that works til they get a new test.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but we don't need to skip treating horses because people with no clue think that shots are a problem.
if racing really wanted to clean up, they'd quit letting repeat offenders stay in the game. change fine structures to percentage of money won, instead of a flat fee. there has to be consequences to make people stop doing what they're doing.
problem is, any time you find a test, someone comes up with a new drug that works til they get a new test.

Agreed, there are a lot of things that could be done. Perception means a lot, and if the things you mention were done and made very public, people might actually believe the sport is at least trying to be clean.

Right now, most people that support the game don't even think it is clean...why should onlookers?

[cmorioles]

Nothing has a worse history than the Tour de France. But they stepped things up and are testing more often and for more advanced drugs. Cheaters are being severely punished.

Even though the Armstrong circus just closed recently, the Tour did an about face with regards to image. True or not, for now people believe it was a clean Tour in 2013. Horse racing could learn a thing or two from this.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Nothing has a worse history than the Tour de France. But they stepped things up and are testing more often and for more advanced drugs. Cheaters are being severely punished.

Even though the Armstrong circus just closed recently, the Tour did an about face with regards to image. True or not, for now people believe it was a clean Tour in 2013. Horse racing could learn a thing or two from this.

The 7 people who still follow cycling? Or all the sponsors that bailed out and havent returned?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They are bigger than the sport for the most part. They are our "too big to fail" banks.

The essential issue here is that very few people have any clue as to what health issues are for racehorses or what options exist for their treatment. How people can come to conclusions about what should be done without any real understanding of the issue at hand, just the preception of the issue, seems to be a recipe for disaster.

Ok Baffert was giving his horses thyroid powder and he stopped and they stopped croaking. Must be indiscriminate use of thyroid powder right? Well why don't any other trainers horses die form this? I have used thyroid powder on hundreds of horses and none died. I don't know another trainer or vet who has ever had horse die due to thyroid powder. I do know that if I was using something that I believed potentially was causing my horses to die I'd much rather have something relatively innocuous like thyrol-L take the blame rather than the real culprit. The conclusion drawn is that he was giving thyroid powder to all his horses and it caused 7 to die because Rick Arthur mentioned it as unusual but he did so in releasing a report stating that there was no smoking gun.

The "17 shots" the Pletcher horse got over the period of time are also hardly something that a vet wouldn't prescribe or directly caused any issues.

-1 of the shots was for Adequan which is preventative medicine
-3 of the shots were for Hylauronic acid in the stifles. This is a single procedure done 5-7 days before the race and three shots are required because the joint is large and splitting the does into three areas works better so that the entire joint is lubricated. Horses dont die from broken stifles.
-2 of the shots were sedatives used to calm the horse to allow the vet to do the procedure on the stifles safely.
-2 of the shots were for banamine which is an anti-inflammatory medications. -1 of these banamine shots would be given when doing the procedure on the stifles to lessen the potential of inflammation in the area where the needle goes into the joint. The other was given 48 hours before.
-2 of the shots given were lasix and based on another medication given prerace it appears that the horse had a history of bleeding as 1 was given a week out when the horse presumably had his last work before the race.
-1 was dexamethasone/cortisone also an anti-inflammatory given when work was done on the stifles.
-1 was Estrone which is a hormone given 48 hours before race to help prevent bleeding.
-2 the last 2 shots were for vitamin B-1 and for Calcium which help calm a horse before the race.

So I'm sure that some will be aghast at all those shots being given but they all have a viable reason for being used and the vast majority of them were given during one procedure. The horse appeared to have stifle issues and bled. Often stifle issues are due to conformation issues and dont just go away with rest. The idea that a vet was somehow forced into doing these treatments is simply not reality. There is this misconception that horses are either sound or unsound like a black and white deal. Truth is that they all deal with unsoundness of some degree at some point. It may be as simple as a grabbed quarter but when they arent sound they need treatment. Horses with not so great conformation will need more help as the concussion absorbed by their legs is distributed through the leg in a less than ideal manner.

My son went to the Dr. for a check up.. 4 injections as part of standard vaccination program. He is 60lbs. The issue is people do not understand that caring for a 1200 pound animal is different then a human being. That said CJ is a million percent correct its all about perception.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by freddymo

My son went to the Dr. for a check up.. 4 injections as part of standard vaccination program. He is 60lbs. The issue is people do not understand that caring for a 1200 pound animal is different then a human being. That said CJ is a million percent correct its all about perception.

sad but true. probably explains why you have people like jenny mccarthy ranting against vaccinations.

people are lazy and don't like to scratch the surface of a topic. you tell them 'horse got 17 shots' and they're horrified.
you tell them it's akin to going to your doctor and getting a shot for your shoulder, knee or back and they'd get it. i think.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

sad but true. probably explains why you have people like jenny mccarthy ranting against vaccinations.

people are lazy and don't like to scratch the surface of a topic. you tell them 'horse got 17 shots' and they're horrified.
you tell them it's akin to going to your doctor and getting a shot for your shoulder, knee or back and they'd get it. i think.

And that is the trick about perception. You just have to treat whatever it is you are "against" as though it is some horrible occurrence and most people will go along with it. It isnt a accident that politicians are involved. This is how they operate.

[dellinger63]

Curious, what's the cost of those 17 shots?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Curious, what's the cost of those 17 shots?

NY prices might be higher than these
Adequan is $75-90
B1 and Calcium $20
Hylaronic acid is expensive. Probably $125-150 a shot.
I dont recall the sedatives used but common ones Acepromazine is $20/ Dormosadan is $40-50
Banamine $20-30
Lasix $20-30
Dexamethasone is $30
Estrone $30-40

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by freddymo

My son went to the Dr. for a check up.. 4 injections as part of standard vaccination program. He is 60lbs. The issue is people do not understand that caring for a 1200 pound animal is different then a human being. That said CJ is a million percent correct its all about perception.

If it is about perception (and I dont disagree) than there is almost no possible way of doing this worse than the way this topic has been handled by racing.