Most Impressive in Defeat?

[cmorioles]

Will Take Charge. Against a pedestrian pace, he was flying home and lost an inch.

The Fugue was another that ran very well in defeat. Strong Mandate was probably best in the Juvy, though a case could be made for Havana. The winner was clearly 3rd best.

[Seattleallstar]

as much as it pains me to say it, Im going with Bobbys Kitten, just to even hang in there and be in a dog fight in deep stretch for any top 3 placing like that was amazing. Horse could of easily just packed it in, but running that fast at that distance on grass being that young was amazing.

[tywizard]

I've watched the stretch run of the classic multiple times...several times I've keyed in on Declaration of War. I realize J O'Brien has won some huge races but I can't help but focus on how inefficient his motions are. Since he's 6' or more he bounces all over the place and it makes you wonder if he was potentially hurting the horses momentum.

[Kasept]

Going through again preparing for today's show and noticed that Gentleman's Bet stayed on admirably after attending the collapse pace of the Sprint..

[JimmyEllis]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Going through again preparing for today's show and noticed that Gentleman's Bet stayed on admirably after attending the collapse pace of the Sprint..

Best against the grain run of the day.
Too bad his jock was the cause if it.

[Sightseek]

Will Take Charge
Za Approval
Strong Mandate
She's a Tiger

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by tywizard

I've watched the stretch run of the classic multiple times...several times I've keyed in on Declaration of War. I realize J O'Brien has won some huge races but I can't help but focus on how inefficient his motions are. Since he's 6' or more he bounces all over the place and it makes you wonder if he was potentially hurting the horses momentum.

Ty..

Chuck said the same thing to me after the race.. that a domestic rider could have made the difference. Completely understand O'Brien sticking with Joseph in the spot, but after flogging him on radio and in the XB Wagering Guide, I backed it up at the window and really needed Declaration. Even 2nd was a good result. Game try.

[randallscott35]

Surely not aerodynamic to be doing that **** on a horse.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Ty..

Chuck said the same thing to me after the race.. that a domestic rider could have made the difference. Completely understand O'Brien sticking with Joseph in the spot, but after flogging him on radio and in the XB Wagering Guide, I backed it up at the window and really needed Declaration. Even 2nd was a good result. Game try.

Steve.. Great job on Declaration of War though given the dearth of data we have on Euro's.

[PatCummings]

I'd suggest there were plenty...

She's A Tiger - who deserves an Eclipse after a great campaign - she's maybe a full length away from an undefeated season and 3 G1s wins.

Agreed on Za Approval, Havana, Will Take Charge...

Alterite ran a huge race in the F&M Turf

But my overall winner for "most impressive loser" is absolutely, positively Declaration of War. The inside scoop over the course of the week was expecting he was going to break slow (as he has in the past) would force Joseph to keep him outside and lose ground, but he'd be out of the kickback. O'Brien was leery of his work at Southwell two weeks out where they thought he didn't get enough kickback in case he ended up inside. It was Joseph's first mount on dirt, EVER...he's 6'4" and when I saw him early in the week, he'd pass for a marathon-running banker.

The boys of Ballydoyle walked away from the Classic just about as fulfilled as any losing connection possibly could. His performance validated the pedigree, their planning, the belief he could compete in this race, and his potential universality as a sire. Tough to find a more "winning" loser than Declaration of War.

[randallscott35]

What a bloody shock you chose a Euro.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

I'd suggest there were plenty...

She's A Tiger - who deserves an Eclipse after a great campaign - she's maybe a full length away from an undefeated season and 3 G1s wins.

Agreed on Za Approval, Havana, Will Take Charge...

Alterite ran a huge race in the F&M Turf

But my overall winner for "most impressive loser" is absolutely, positively Declaration of War. The inside scoop over the course of the week was expecting he was going to break slow (as he has in the past) would force Joseph to keep him outside and lose ground, but he'd be out of the kickback. O'Brien was leery of his work at Southwell two weeks out where they thought he didn't get enough kickback in case he ended up inside. It was Joseph's first mount on dirt, EVER...he's 6'4" and when I saw him early in the week, he'd pass for a marathon-running banker.

The boys of Ballydoyle walked away from the Classic just about as fulfilled as any losing connection possibly could. His performance validated the pedigree, their planning, the belief he could compete in this race, and his potential universality as a sire. Tough to find a more "winning" loser than Declaration of War.

They kept saying he was 6' on television, they shorted him 4" inches I guess.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Ty..

Chuck said the same thing to me after the race.. that a domestic rider could have made the difference. Completely understand O'Brien sticking with Joseph in the spot, but after flogging him on radio and in the XB Wagering Guide, I backed it up at the window and really needed Declaration. Even 2nd was a good result. Game try.

With all due respect, this is nonsense. A domestic rider may have gotten him to change leads, but Joseph O'Brien rode a PERFECT race. Not only did he have Declaration of War in an ideal position from the start, he successfully avoided running into traffic as the horses immediately in front of him quit. He kept on grinding down the stretch and came up short. It was unfortunate that he wouldn't change leads because it very well may have been the difference, but it wasn't like the jock wasn't trying to get him to switch.

On top of that, American jockeys have never been worse than right now. It's comical how bad our "good" jockeys like Rosario, Castellano and Bejarano are on the big stage.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

With all due respect, this is nonsense. A domestic rider may have gotten him to change leads, but Joseph O'Brien rode a PERFECT race. Not only did he have Declaration of War in an ideal position from the start, he successfully avoided running into traffic as the horses immediately in front of him quit. He kept on grinding down the stretch and came up short. It was unfortunate that he wouldn't change leads because it very well may have been the difference, but it wasn't like the jock wasn't trying to get him to switch.

On top of that, American jockeys have never been worse than right now. It's comical how bad our "good" jockeys like Rosario, Castellano and Bejarano are on the big stage.

With all due respect how can you say that its nonsense and also say that a domestic rider may have gotten to change leads and say that not switching very well may have been the difference?

[Danzig]

riders for courses would be an advantage. why else would they have changed jocks for animal kingdoms last? now, it didn't help in that situation, but we've all seen races where a horse was impaired because of a jocks lack of experience at a track.

if i was bringing over a euro, you can bet your behind i'd want the best american jock on him. surface switch is one thing, race riding is different, pace is different, hell, direction is different.
a u.s. jock could only have helped DOW.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

With all due respect how can you say that its nonsense and also say that a domestic rider may have gotten to change leads and say that not switching very well may have been the difference?

Do you believe that he lost because he didn't change leads? That was the only possible thing I could infer from Steve's statement.

If so, then the only thing you could believe is that a domestic jockey could have gotten him to change leads. I say that because, other than him not changing leads, he was ridden flawlessly in my opinion.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

With all due respect, this is nonsense. A domestic rider may have gotten him to change leads, but Joseph O'Brien rode a PERFECT race. Not only did he have Declaration of War in an ideal position from the start, he successfully avoided running into traffic as the horses immediately in front of him quit. He kept on grinding down the stretch and came up short. It was unfortunate that he wouldn't change leads because it very well may have been the difference, but it wasn't like the jock wasn't trying to get him to switch.

On top of that, American jockeys have never been worse than right now. It's comical how bad our "good" jockeys like Rosario, Castellano and Bejarano are on the big stage.

I think this is more about your eagerness to bash the domestic jocks than arguing that a more efficient moving North American style rider might have gotten the little extra out of Declaration that potentially changes the outcome. As Chuck just said, you're at cross-purposes regarding the lead change.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I think this is more about your eagerness to bash the domestic jocks than arguing that a more efficient moving North American style rider might have gotten the little extra out of Declaration that potentially changes the outcome. As Chuck just said, you're at cross-purposes regarding the lead change.

No, it has everything to do with the fact that I think Joseph O'Brien rode a terrific race and that a "domestic rider" would have been hard pressed to provide an appreciable advantage.

Surely you know me well enough to be confident that I'll bash domestic jockeys without doing so indirectly!

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

With all due respect, this is nonsense. A domestic rider may have gotten him to change leads, but Joseph O'Brien rode a PERFECT race. Not only did he have Declaration of War in an ideal position from the start, he successfully avoided running into traffic as the horses immediately in front of him quit. He kept on grinding down the stretch and came up short. It was unfortunate that he wouldn't change leads because it very well may have been the difference, but it wasn't like the jock wasn't trying to get him to switch.

On top of that, American jockeys have never been worse than right now. It's comical how bad our "good" jockeys like Rosario, Castellano and Bejarano are on the big stage.

Bejarano on Silentio doing his best Jeremy Rose on Afleet Alex in the Derby impression in the stretch (barf). I mean this costing him 2nd of course. He wasn't beating Wise Dan.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Ty..

Chuck said the same thing to me after the race.. that a domestic rider could have made the difference. Completely understand O'Brien sticking with Joseph in the spot, but after flogging him on radio and in the XB Wagering Guide, I backed it up at the window and really needed Declaration. Even 2nd was a good result. Game try.

I suggest that Joseph O'Brien's ride on Declaration of War was the best of his career...first time on dirt, saved ground, kickback a first for both horse and rider, chasing American speed. He can't go on much longer as a jock, but I'll always remember this mount as one of, if not the best of his career. They were totally expecting to be slow away compared to American early dirt speed and have to be wide and limit the kickback - but O'Brien got him away well, in a handy position, and gave him every chance to win.

Having touted him as much as you did, I'd be monumentally thrilled with the ride and performance.