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#1
10-09-2013, 02:18 PM
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that law, flawed as it is, passed all three branches of government. the behavior being exhibited by a portion of congress to stop a law that congress passed (and the executive and judicial also signed off on) is reprehensible. but, repubs are going all out now on this, because their largest fear isn't obamacare. it's that once people get obamacare, they will like it and want to keep it. THAT is what repubs don't want to have happen. and the funny thing is, when you ask people if they like the different rules and regs in obamacare, they like it. but when you ask them 'do you like obamacare', they say no. quite a job done on branding by the republicans on this. ask many of these same folks, who don't like obamacare, if they support the affordable care act, yes-yes, they do. of course, they are also pulling this stunt in the lead up to the debt ceiling. that's the other part of their grand plan.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln 
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#2
10-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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 http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...,6137479.story
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#3
10-09-2013, 02:40 PM
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no, the craziest thing is that a segment of congress has been able to shut the whole government down. this is supposed to be a democracy-not mob rule by a small portion of one party. and that's what this is-or a tantrum, thrown by a few with the mindset of 2 year olds. i can't get my wayyyyyyy. waaaaah. i don't know that i've ever been so disgusted with these people. oh, and randall and anyone else saying hitting the debt ceiling would be no big deal, please...read this: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opi...,6006376.story an excerpt: If the U.S. government starts defaulting on its obligations — any obligations — that confidence will be permanently shaken. And that has some very real, practical consequences. The largest holders of U.S. treasuries are the Social Security system and the Federal Reserve. If government bonds are suddenly devalued, Social Security could find itself unable to pay retirees, and the assets that back the value of the dollar would evaporate. The third and fourth largest bond holders are the Chinese and Japanese governments. If their assets suddenly contract in value, the contagion would spread from the world's largest economy to the second- and third-largest. Many institutions are barred from trading in bonds issued by an entity in default, which means that pension funds, money market funds, bond funds and other investment funds would be required to dump their U.S. debt, causing its value to spiral downward even more. For average Americans, that means the purchasing power of their dollars will collapse, and interest rates on everything from mortgages to credit cards would skyrocket — if any lending was going on at all. After Lehman Brothers defaulted on its obligations five years ago, the stock market lost half its value, lending froze and unemployment jumped above 10 percent. We still have not recovered. The treasury's outstanding debt is more than 20 times as great as Lehman's was. We avoided another Great Depression after Lehman only because the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury were able to take extraordinary action to shore up the financial markets. If the U.S. government is the one to default, there will be no one to save us. The precise chain of events that would occur after a U.S. default is unknowable, both because it has never happened and because it would be the single largest disruption of the financial markets imaginable. But there is near universal consensus among economists, global finance officials and the financial industry that it would foster world-wide catastrophe.Yet a sizable portion of the Republican caucus in Washington chooses simply not to believe any of it. They think the White House is bluffing or that the predictions of dire consequences are overblown. Sequestration wasn't the end of the world, they say, and neither so far has been the federal government shutdown — at least not for members of Congress, who continue to show up to work and get paid.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#4
10-09-2013, 02:54 PM
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Amazing how well we're doing with the country shut down?
Granted we need to pay the bills we owe. We don't have to incur any new ones. And as the past week has shown us we can do just fine w/o the majority of government in operation despite Chicken Little's prediction of the sky falling. BTW We need to stop considering Social Security as an entitlement unless we change SS withholding to Entitlement Withholding on everyone's check.
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#5
10-09-2013, 03:05 PM
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#6
10-09-2013, 03:14 PM
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Let's pay our bills while we balance the budget. Until then everything else can wait. You'll see it get done but not until the money train is stopped.
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#7
10-10-2013, 06:49 AM
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#8
10-09-2013, 03:15 PM
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War criminals toast each other over jokes, as America burns.
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"If you lose the power to laugh, you lose the power to think" - Clarence Darrow, American lawyer (1857-1938) When you are right, no one remembers;when you are wrong, no one forgets. Thought for today.."No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong" - Francois, Duc de la Rochefoucauld, French moralist (1613-1680)
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#9
10-09-2013, 03:32 PM
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__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#10
10-10-2013, 12:52 PM
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so...much hand-wringing is going on, and i just had a client come by and mention that social security checks could stop coming. so, i looked into it-sure enough, if the govt defaults, ss would be affected. so, some reading turned me to other subjects, other articles, and finally, i wondered....why is there a debt ceiling? when was it put in place? so, of course, i asked the mighty google god...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...fecd_blog.html The article notes that the debt limit generally was raised without controversy until a White House request to raise the limit in 1953 was sidetracked in the Senate, “where the ceiling was viewed as an instrument for forcing economy on the executive branch of the government.” Hmm, that sounds familiar. and the last of the article: The debt limit was originally conceived as a way to make things easier for Congress, because lawmakers were tired of having to issue bonds for specific purposes. (Congress, after all, had already decided to spend the money.) But then Congress often finds a way to make the easy stuff harder. Indeed, when he was a senator, President Obama also refused to approve a debt-limit increase in 2006 without a plan to reduce the deficit. The president now acknowledges that was a “political vote, as opposed to doing what was important for the country — which he regrets.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#11
10-10-2013, 12:53 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ling_increases
A statutorily imposed debt ceiling has been in effect since 1917 when the US Congress passed the Second Liberty Bond Act. Before 1917 there was no debt ceiling in force, but there were parliamentary procedural limitations on the level of possible debt that could be held by government. US government indebtedness has been the norm in United States financial history, as well of most Western European and North American countries, for the past 200 years. The US has been in debt every year except for 1835. Debts incurred during the American Revolutionary War and under the Articles of Confederation led to the first yearly report on the amount of the debt ($75,463,476.52 on January 1, 1791). Every President since Herbert Hoover has added to the national debt expressed in absolute dollars. The debt ceiling has been raised 74 times since March 1962,[1] including 18 times under Ronald Reagan, eight times under Bill Clinton, seven times under George W. Bush, and three times under Barack Obama.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln
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#12
10-10-2013, 12:57 PM
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i love history, i'm such a geek:
Prior to the Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, the debt ceiling played an important role since Congress had few opportunities to hold hearings and debates on the budget.[8] James Surowiecki argued that the debt ceiling lost its usefulness after these reforms to the budget process.[9] In 1979, noting the potential problems of hitting a default, Dick Gephardt imposed the "Gephardt Rule," a parliamentary rule that deemed the debt ceiling raised when a budget was passed. This resolved the contradiction in voting for appropriations but not voting to fund them. The rule stood until it was repealed by the Republican Congress in 1995. now, that gephardt rule makes complete sense. how could it not? too bad it was repealed...not that it matters, we haven't had an actual budget in YEARS.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln Last edited by Danzig : 10-10-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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