govt shutdown looms

[joeydb]

[GenuineRisk]

[Danzig]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/...oncession.html

'But the debt ceiling isn't some pet Obama administration priority. There is a gap between the spending that Congress has instructed Treasury to undertake and the taxes that Congress has authorized Treasury to collect. Authority to borrow the money to fill the gap is necessary to legally dot the i-s and cross the t-s.
Granting it does not authorize any new spending and failing to grant it does not cut spending.'


and here is a link to an article discussing the 'conscience clause' repubs worked up:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...employers.html

[Danzig]

and this, on what happens if the ceiling isn't raised:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._mean_you.html

'Looking around the Web today, most grassroots conservatives and a frightening number of Republican members of Congress seem to be under the misapprehension that raising the debt ceiling increases government spending or that failing to raise it decreases government spending. Neither is true. I don't think anyone really knows what will happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, but a reduction in government spending is not one of the possible consequences.

There are two kinds of government spending—mandatory and discretionary—and neither of them will be cut by a single penny by a refusal to hike the debt ceiling.'


and at the end:

'Spending is determined by the laws that have already been passed, and if you want to spend less money you need to change those laws.'

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and this, on what happens if the ceiling isn't raised:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/..._mean_you.html

'Looking around the Web today, most grassroots conservatives and a frightening number of Republican members of Congress seem to be under the misapprehension that raising the debt ceiling increases government spending or that failing to raise it decreases government spending. Neither is true. I don't think anyone really knows what will happen if the debt ceiling isn't raised, but a reduction in government spending is not one of the possible consequences.

There are two kinds of government spending—mandatory and discretionary—and neither of them will be cut by a single penny by a refusal to hike the debt ceiling.'


and at the end:

'Spending is determined by the laws that have already been passed, and if you want to spend less money you need to change those laws.'

I think this sort of message always stops spending:



At least it does for individuals and businesses. And, if there is no effect on spending as said above, then why is everyone pushing for a raise of the debt ceiling?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I think this sort of message always stops spending:



At least it does for individuals and businesses. And, if there is no effect on spending as said above, then why is everyone pushing for a raise of the debt ceiling?

the money has already been 'spent', the debt ceiling has to do with the difference between money on hand and what's borrowed.
if we want to lower our debt, we need to re-do the budget, or raise taxes. the debt is what the govt uses to finance what taxes don't cover.

regardless of party in control of the white house, the debt ceiling becomes a political football. when bush was president, the repubs had no issue with raising the debt ceiling, and dems fought it-such as obama, when a senator. of course, now the shoe's on the other foot.
but it's a ridiculous stance to take, as the very congresspeople now fighting over this debt ceiling are the same ones who control the purse strings, the spending, the budgets, which aren't in line, haven't been in line, and require the govt to borrow in the first place!!
it would be like your wife and you buying a house, two cars, etc, and then refusing to finance it-you want to pay in cash, but you don't have the cash. but you agreed to buy all those items. so, you fork over your cash, and then what? that's where the govt will find itself if the ceiling isn't raised, again, as it has been raised however many times over the years.


in a nutshell, congress passes tax and spending bills that make a budget deficit necessary and they are now refusing to allow the borrowing to finance that deficit-a deficit congress created!
if they want to stay under the current debt ceiling, they need to change their tax and spending bills.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

if they want to stay under the current debt ceiling, they need to change their tax and spending bills.

Like spoiled children they need to be told to go to their rooms and there's no more money coming unless they come up with a balanced budget. Give them a month and pay all mandatory bills while suspending all discretionary spending.

You'll never see DC work harder.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Unless we plan on taxing every good and service 100% I think GDP represents nothing but potential tax money.

The situation is far worse when considering total tax revenues, expected at $2.7 trillion this year vs. annual budget $3.7 trillion with a total debt just over $20 trillion.

To put it in real numbers imagine going to a bank for a loan to pay bills, making $27K/yr. after taxes with $37K/yr. in expenses and owing 200K in credit card bills, including cards taken out in your children's and grandchildren's names.

It would be nice for everyone to have health insurance whether supplemented or not. It would also be nice if everyone had a house and a yard. But in the real world the money's not there and like everyone living in the real world we need to cut back and make (tax) more. Since neither party seems willing to, Dems cut and GOP tax, I suggest forming a dueling league and holding 20 Dem v. GOP events with the best of seven duels.