UPDATE: BC keeps 2yo Lasix ban; Drops Juvy Sprint

[cmorioles]

Juvy Sprint is a joke, and they Juvy Turf races should go too, along with the Marathon. Hell, I can't remember all the races any longer there are so many. Oh, Turf Sprint, please, there is another that should be kaput.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Juvy Sprint is a joke, and they Juvy Turf races should go too, along with the Marathon. Hell, I can't remember all the races any longer there are so many. Oh, Turf Sprint, please, there is another that should be kaput.

CJ.. Agree on the Juvy overkill, but after initially scoffing at the Turf Sprint, I've come to around to liking it. There's more than enough of a grass sprint division domestically to justify it and on top of that, turf dashes are very big internationally. It would be pretty exciting to have a Black Caviar or Takeover Target type show up for a running..

[cakes44]

I really like the turf sprint. There should only be one Juvie Turf race. The marathon would be better supported over here if it was back at 1 1/2 miles. Totally agree that the juvie sprint has got to go.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Cardus

At 1 1/2, the race's first running was a joke.

At 1 3/4, it is barely a "marathon".

Yep, still at the long end of middle distance for most of the world. It has brought back some longer distance stakes races so I would hate to see it go. Would much rather see one juvie turf race (and one on the dirt as well, though that won't happen) and one sprint for older. I'm torn on the juvie sprint as it is a positive keeping young horses that should be sprinting running sprints. Takes the Derby fever down a degree or two.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

Yep, still at the long end of middle distance for most of the world. It has brought back some longer distance stakes races so I would hate to see it go. Would much rather see one juvie turf race (and one on the dirt as well, though that won't happen) and one sprint for older. I'm torn on the juvie sprint as it is a positive keeping young horses that should be sprinting running sprints. Takes the Derby fever down a degree or two.

except it doesn't. you see horses who labor at two turns, or more than 7 f, or are turfers, but their owners still want to try churchill in may.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Danzig

except it doesn't. you see horses who labor at two turns, or more than 7 f, or are turfers, but their owners still want to try churchill in may.

Didn't say it cured it, just said it redircted it a little.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

CJ.. Agree on the Juvy overkill, but after initially scoffing at the Turf Sprint, I've come to around to liking it. There's more than enough of a grass sprint division domestically to justify it and on top of that, turf dashes are very big internationally. It would be pretty exciting to have a Black Caviar or Takeover Target type show up for a running..

Agree. I just wish they would standardize the distance and I would vote for 5.0 furlongs.

[cakes44]

Not sure they can run 5f on the turf at SA.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by cakes44

Not sure they can run 5f on the turf at SA.

I always thought of that. I certainly don't like the down the hill course for Breeders Cup as it gives a huge advantage to the home team.

[Danzig]

they've deferred the lasix decision til a later date.

[cakes44]

Originally Posted by jms62

I always thought of that. I certainly don't like the down the hill course for Breeders Cup as it gives a huge advantage to the home team.

Serious question for you or anybody else that knows more about track configuration, what would be the closest distance to 5f they could run on the turf there? It's not like the turf course is some grassy bullring.

[Cannon Shell]

If the NFL were run like the Breeders Cup they would have the teams kickers run a 40 yard match race at halftime and award 2 points to the winning team.

I'm still waiting for the vote to be announced for champion US marathon horse

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

CJ.. Agree on the Juvy overkill, but after initially scoffing at the Turf Sprint, I've come to around to liking it. There's more than enough of a grass sprint division domestically to justify it and on top of that, turf dashes are very big internationally. It would be pretty exciting to have a Black Caviar or Takeover Target type show up for a running..

Yeah, its better than the others, but this switching from 5 to 6.5f all the time is a bit old.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, its better than the others, but this switching from 5 to 6.5f all the time is a bit old.

can't they run 5 f on the turf without worrying about using the downhill course? the turf course is 7f. and i agree, several of these bs races need to go. put all their purse money into the classic. it should be the biggest purse of the year.
and the bc juvie and fillies juvie should be shorter.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Yeah, its better than the others, but this switching from 5 to 6.5f all the time is a bit old.

I don't know.. The F&M Turf switches distance from 10f-11f based on venue. That's pretty significant.

The 6.5f-T is unique and I understand those that say it gives an unfair advantage to local runners. But in the first 2 runnings out there, a horse with no experience on it was close: Diabolical (2nd) was beaten a jump in '08 (Desert Code) and Cannonball (3rd) was 2L back in '09 (California Flag).

In that '08 running, Storm Treasure was 3rd at of the WO Mile and that nice Euro filly Fleeting Spirit was 4th. The '09 edition was dominated by Cal-based types besides Cannonball with Gotta Have Her 2nd and Delta Storm 4th.

Last year, Unbridled's Note (2nd) was beaten a half length (Mizdirection) and did have a downhill prep winning the Eddie D. ahead of the Cup. Great Mills was 4th behind Reneesgotzip, beaten 3L after coming in from Keeneland.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Kasept

I don't know.. The F&M Turf switches distance from 10f-11f based on venue. That's pretty significant.

The 6.5f-T is unique and I understand those that say it gives an unfair advantage to local runners. But in the first 2 runnings out there, a horse with no experience on it was close: Diabolical (2nd) was beaten a jump in '08 (Desert Code) and Cannonball (3rd) was 2L back in '09 (California Flag).

In that '08 running, Storm Treasure was 3rd at of the WO Mile and that nice Euro filly Fleeting Spirit was 4th. The '09 edition was dominated by Cal-based types besides Cannonball with Gotta Have Her 2nd and Delta Storm 4th.

Last year, Unbridled's Note (2nd) was beaten a half length (Mizdirection) and did have a downhill prep winning the Eddie D. ahead of the Cup. Great Mills was 4th behind Reneesgotzip, beaten 3L after coming in from Keeneland.

No argument with any of that. It just isn't really a turf sprint in my opinion. Most people think of 5 or 5.5 as turf sprints. Of course it wasn't that long ago that neither New York or SoCal even ran turf sprints outside of going down the hill.

[Linny]

Maybe the BC uses baseline budgeting of races and the "decrease" will actually mean that they are planning on rethinking additional races. recall that this past year they ran those "quasi-BC races" as pilots for potential additional growth.

[Kasept]

https://twitter.com/DRFGrening: Breeders' Cup maintains Lasix ban on juveniles but will permit Lasix in other races. BC Juvenile Sprint eliminated.