2/6 ATR: Grening, Von Hemel, Chuckas, Chamblin, Rogers, more..

[Kasept]

Big Wed. ATR...

9:30 NTRA's Keith Chamblin on new NHC wrinkles..

10:00 MJC's Tom Chuckas on PIM & LRL renovations..
10:20 Darren Rogers announced Pool 1 of KDFW..
10:40 Satish Sanan

11:00 Xpressbet's Johnny D
11:30 Donnie Von Hemel
11:50 DRF's Dave Grening on Ramon's rehab release..

SXM re-airs. Archive, etc., www.stevebyk.com. Capital Off-Track Betting TV..

[pweizer]

Steve,

I just listened to the Keith Chamblin interview. You know I am a big contest player and tour supporter. Few people play in more contests than I do throughout the year. That said, it has become very hard for me to support the NTRA.

At the NHC in 2012, many players raised the issue with Keith about how much money the NTRA keeps in entry fees that come from players. While we never got an exact amount, I can assure you it is in the seven figure range. We were promised more transparency but never got any information.

This year, the NTRA held about 50% of all moneys collected from hosts and players to fund the NHC. I have enjoyed reading about the 52% takeout in the Rainbow 6. This is nearly as bad. And, at least with the rainbow 6, they tell you the exact amount. Here, the NTRA took in more than a million dollars above what they paid out.

There are so many great contests out there that pay back 100% or more to the players. All NYRA events, Keeneland, The Breeder's Cup Betting Challenge, The Wynn contest, Del Mar, etc. all return more than 100% to players. Sites like Ron Geary's Horsetourneys and Kevin Geraghty's HPQualify also offer many low or no take out contests. This only makes the NTRA's position all the more troubling.

Next time you talk to Keith or Eric Wing, perhaps you can ask them about the takeout and what justifies it? It would be a real service to all tournament players shed some light on this situation.

Paul

[mnmark]

I aslo read where they are allowing players to qualify twice for the tournament. what is the reason for that? the only thing I can think of is greed. more entry fees. I bet you will have quite a few multiple entries at the NHC next year. It is such an advantage to have multiple entries in any tournament. when you get knocked out of the worls series of poker your done till next year you dont get a second entry or chance and thats the same way it should be for our so called world series of handicapping multiple entries by the same person just skews the integrity and validity of ANY contest

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by mnmark

I aslo read where they are allowing players to qualify twice for the tournament. what is the reason for that? the only thing I can think of is greed. more entry fees. I bet you will have quite a few multiple entries at the NHC next year. It is such an advantage to have multiple entries in any tournament. when you get knocked out of the worls series of poker your done till next year you dont get a second entry or chance and thats the same way it should be for our so called world series of handicapping multiple entries by the same person just skews the integrity and validity of ANY contest

I personally don't mind the two entry thing. Only one entry can make the final day. Plus, this may cut down on people playing in someone else's name once they have qualified.

I doubt it will do much in terms of increased fees as the serious players all play for tour points regardless. And, I would not have a problem if the additional fees went into the NHC purse. I do have a major problem if the entry fees are taken from the players to fund the day to day payroll of the NTRA.

Paul

[hi_im_god]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I personally don't mind the two entry thing. Only one entry can make the final day. Plus, this may cut down on people playing in someone else's name once they have qualified.

I doubt it will do much in terms of increased fees as the serious players all play for tour points regardless. And, I would not have a problem if the additional fees went into the NHC purse. I do have a major problem if the entry fees are taken from the players to fund the day to day payroll of the NTRA.

Paul

paul-

do any of the top tournament players have sponsors? i know in poker that none of the premier players ever pays an entry fee if they don't want to. they sell their services for a percentage of any winnings.

do you know if any of that is happening on your circut?

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

paul-

do any of the top tournament players have sponsors? i know in poker that none of the premier players ever pays an entry fee if they don't want to. they sell their services for a percentage of any winnings.

do you know if any of that is happening on your circut?

No, the prize pools just aren't big enough at this point. There are a number of us who do have partners that we split a percentage of costs/winnings with, but no outright sponsors.

Paul

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by pweizer

Steve,

I just listened to the Keith Chamblin interview. You know I am a big contest player and tour supporter. Few people play in more contests than I do throughout the year. That said, it has become very hard for me to support the NTRA.

At the NHC in 2012, many players raised the issue with Keith about how much money the NTRA keeps in entry fees that come from players. While we never got an exact amount, I can assure you it is in the seven figure range. We were promised more transparency but never got any information.

This year, the NTRA held about 50% of all moneys collected from hosts and players to fund the NHC. I have enjoyed reading about the 52% takeout in the Rainbow 6. This is nearly as bad. And, at least with the rainbow 6, they tell you the exact amount. Here, the NTRA took in more than a million dollars above what they paid out.

There are so many great contests out there that pay back 100% or more to the players. All NYRA events, Keeneland, The Breeder's Cup Betting Challenge, The Wynn contest, Del Mar, etc. all return more than 100% to players. Sites like Ron Geary's Horsetourneys and Kevin Geraghty's HPQualify also offer many low or no take out contests. This only makes the NTRA's position all the more troubling.

Next time you talk to Keith or Eric Wing, perhaps you can ask them about the takeout and what justifies it? It would be a real service to all tournament players shed some light on this situation.

Paul

Paul,

You and the players very well know that answer already. In lieu of lost revenue from former sustaining member tracks, I'd have to think they need the contributing funds to sustain themselves and the tourney.

You asked as Beat the Host started why XB wasn't giving a seat away to NHC... I think you know to that answer too: The price increase levied on seat-buyers that forced decision-making as to affordability and breakeven points.

I'd guess that you and the serious tourney players have to ask yourselves what the price elasticity is for your participation. It's great that certain contest-offerers are returning all the money generated by fees back as prizes, but it would seem they are running those events as loss leaders or as a service to the industry. But from what I understand -- and I'd imagine you and the players know -- the NTRA isn't remotely in that position right now.

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Paul,

You and the players very well know that answer already. In lieu of lost revenue from former sustaining member tracks, I'd have to think they need the contributing funds to sustain themselves and the tourney.

You asked as Beat the Host started why XB wasn't giving a seat away to NHC... I think you know to that answer too: The price increase levied on seat-buyers that forced decision-making as to affordability and breakeven points.

I'd guess that you and the serious tourney players have to ask yourselves what the price elasticity is for your participation. It's great that certain contest-offerers are returning all the money generated by fees back as prizes, but it would seem they are running those events as loss leaders or as a service to the industry. But from what I understand -- and I'd imagine you and the players know -- the NTRA isn't remotely in that position right now.

Steve--thanks for the reply. Honestly, I do not know the answer to my questions. I don't think anyone does since the NTRA refuses to answer the question. I know you prefer to present the positive side of the game (which I appreciate). But, it is a fair topic to raise and maybe you could get a response where the contest players have not.

Paul