Horrific Newtown, CT school shooting

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

That would not have prevented this nut from stealing his mother's guns (after killing her with same).

If the goal is really to make laws in response to this incident, that doesn't fit.

my point is that everyone should have to go to a licensed dealer, and have everything checked out.
would it have applied in this case? maybe, maybe not. did his mother buy all her weapons from a licensed dealer, and had to perform background checks? i have no idea. but i do know that people buy and sell guns privately every day. how else would felons be in possession? and that happens, a lot.
there is far more at issue than this one mass shooting.

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

my point is that everyone should have to go to a licensed dealer, and have everything checked out.
would it have applied in this case? maybe, maybe not. did his mother buy all her weapons from a licensed dealer, and had to perform background checks? i have no idea. but i do know that people buy and sell guns privately every day. how else would felons be in possession? and that happens, a lot.
there is far more at issue than this one mass shooting.

Maybe something similar to vehicle sales would work. In other words, vehicles are sold privately every day. But the seller calls the insurance company and takes it off his policy (date and time), and tells the state that the car is no longer his. The buyer then must insure the car himself, and register it with the state under his name.

With computers this could be enforced pretty easily. You could have private sales, but the registration requirement (which already exists everywhere) is made a component of the sale in the same way as it is for cars, and modernized for enforcement and tracking.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Maybe something similar to vehicle sales would work. In other words, vehicles are sold privately every day. But the seller calls the insurance company and takes it off his policy (date and time), and tells the state that the car is no longer his. The buyer then must insure the car himself, and register it with the state under his name.

With computers this could be enforced pretty easily. You could have private sales, but the registration requirement (which already exists everywhere) is made a component of the sale in the same way as it is for cars, and modernized for enforcement and tracking.

here in arkansas, the state isn't necessarily informed of a car sale.
as for private sale, by the time all that is supposedly done, said loony gun buyer could have already done what he planned to do.
i'm not saying a ban on sales-but there should be an blanket ban on private sales. sellers should have to go to a registered dealer, and either sell or consign a firearm. that way, every purchase is handled the way it should be, with no buyer slipping thru the cracks.

[Calzone Lord]

These mass murdering school shooters are almost always either Infamy seekers or mentally ill.

Obviously, this killer was not an Infamy seeker (no past criminal record, no facebook profile, no Youtube, no homemade videos like the Columbine killers and Va Tech Killers)

I highly doubt he was mentally ill, either.

Asperger's is a social illness, and far from a mental illness. I know from experience, because I have it.

One of the many problems this kid probably had, is that he didn't act out and openly express himself. He repressed his emotions and bottled everything up. This leaves one feeling powerless and makes them like a bomb waiting to go off after long enough.

He also didn't try to make friends and connect with people. I remember when I moved to a new school in 9th grade, I'd eat my lunch standing up in the corner of the cafeteria. I didn't want to talk to people, didn't want to look at people, I was just withdrawn for 90% of the day.

A couple of the older football players took me under their wing and talked me into sitting down and eating with them. Eventually, you feel a lot better when you make friends and express yourself.

On top of that, I think the Lanza kid was probably stuck in a toxic situation at home.

People who try to impose their will and tell you how you should behave bring out the absolute worst in the personality of a person with Asperger's.

Adam Lanza's mom was a Doomsday Prepper and a gun-nut who believed the world economic structure was about to collapse. She stopped working her job, her Husband divorced her and ran away, her oldest son told police he hadn't been back home to visit her in two years ... a "normal" person would have probably slit their wrist if they had to put up with her.

I'm not trying to defend the sick and disgusting final deed of a 20-year-old ... but it is hard for a 20-year-old with autism to get away and escape from her, like her husband and his brother did. The family life was probably unraveling.

This Lanza probably repressed his rage and felt powerless. Finally he took his rage out on his mom and shot her in the head "multiple times" That was the first kill and the most personal one.

From there, He drove to his mothers old place of employment... a school 2 miles away.

I'm guessing someone who worked there was probably the other source of his rage. Probably the principle or a former boss of his mother.

After he took her out -- he no longer felt powerless and was drunk on rage and put on a demonstration.

When he heard sirens and saw first responders -- he probably had a brief moment of clarity and shot himself in the head.

[cal828]

Here is some information on the "Brady Law."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...hecks/bradylaw

says something about mentally ill persons that have been "court ordered." I take this to mean persons that have been at some point in their lives hospitalized for mental illness so that they would not harm themselves or others? Also, note that unlicensed gun dealers such as those at gun shows can get around the background check.

[cal828]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

These mass murdering school shooters are almost always either Infamy seekers or mentally ill.

Obviously, this killer was not an Infamy seeker (no past criminal record, no facebook profile, no Youtube, no homemade videos like the Columbine killers and Va Tech Killers)

I highly doubt he was mentally ill, either.

Asperger's is a social illness, and far from a mental illness. I know from experience, because I have it.

One of the many problems this kid probably had, is that he didn't act out and openly express himself. He repressed his emotions and bottled everything up. This leaves one feeling powerless and makes them like a bomb waiting to go off after long enough.

He also didn't try to make friends and connect with people. I remember when I moved to a new school in 9th grade, I'd eat my lunch standing up in the corner of the cafeteria. I didn't want to talk to people, didn't want to look at people, I was just withdrawn for 90% of the day.

A couple of the older football players took me under their wing and talked me into sitting down and eating with them. Eventually, you feel a lot better when you make friends and express yourself.

On top of that, I think the Lanza kid was probably stuck in a toxic situation at home.

People who try to impose their will and tell you how you should behave bring out the absolute worst in the personality of a person with Asperger's.

Adam Lanza's mom was a Doomsday Prepper and a gun-nut who believed the world economic structure was about to collapse. She stopped working her job, her Husband divorced her and ran away, her oldest son told police he hadn't been back home to visit her in two years ... a "normal" person would have probably slit their wrist if they had to put up with her.

I'm not trying to defend the sick and disgusting final deed of a 20-year-old ... but it is hard for a 20-year-old with autism to get away and escape from her, like her husband and his brother did. The family life was probably unraveling.

This Lanza probably repressed his rage and felt powerless. Finally he took his rage out on his mom and shot her in the head "multiple times" That was the first kill and the most personal one.

From there, He drove to his mothers old place of employment... a school 2 miles away.

I'm guessing someone who worked there was probably the other source of his rage. Probably the principle or a former boss of his mother.

After he took her out -- he no longer felt powerless and was drunk on rage and put on a demonstration.

When he heard sirens and saw first responders -- he probably had a brief moment of clarity and shot himself in the head.

Interesting explanation, but I think you might have gotten one detail wrong. I don't think it was his mom's place of employment. That was reported early on, but later corrected. I wonder whether there might have been some incident at school though, wherever, he was going, because she withdrew him and was home schooling him.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by cal828

I wonder whether there might have been some incident at school though, wherever, he was going, because she withdrew him and was home schooling him.

Yeah, it sounded pretty weird that she pulled him from school.

He was taking college classes at age 16.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2315431.html

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

These mass murdering school shooters are almost always either Infamy seekers or mentally ill.

Obviously, this killer was not an Infamy seeker (no past criminal record, no facebook profile, no Youtube, no homemade videos like the Columbine killers and Va Tech Killers)

I highly doubt he was mentally ill, either.

Asperger's is a social illness, and far from a mental illness. I know from experience, because I have it.

One of the many problems this kid probably had, is that he didn't act out and openly express himself. He repressed his emotions and bottled everything up. This leaves one feeling powerless and makes them like a bomb waiting to go off after long enough.

He also didn't try to make friends and connect with people. I remember when I moved to a new school in 9th grade, I'd eat my lunch standing up in the corner of the cafeteria. I didn't want to talk to people, didn't want to look at people, I was just withdrawn for 90% of the day.

A couple of the older football players took me under their wing and talked me into sitting down and eating with them. Eventually, you feel a lot better when you make friends and express yourself.

On top of that, I think the Lanza kid was probably stuck in a toxic situation at home.

People who try to impose their will and tell you how you should behave bring out the absolute worst in the personality of a person with Asperger's.

Adam Lanza's mom was a Doomsday Prepper and a gun-nut who believed the world economic structure was about to collapse. She stopped working her job, her Husband divorced her and ran away, her oldest son told police he hadn't been back home to visit her in two years ... a "normal" person would have probably slit their wrist if they had to put up with her.

I'm not trying to defend the sick and disgusting final deed of a 20-year-old ... but it is hard for a 20-year-old with autism to get away and escape from her, like her husband and his brother did. The family life was probably unraveling.

This Lanza probably repressed his rage and felt powerless. Finally he took his rage out on his mom and shot her in the head "multiple times" That was the first kill and the most personal one.

From there, He drove to his mothers old place of employment... a school 2 miles away.

I'm guessing someone who worked there was probably the other source of his rage. Probably the principle or a former boss of his mother.

After he took her out -- he no longer felt powerless and was drunk on rage and put on a demonstration.

When he heard sirens and saw first responders -- he probably had a brief moment of clarity and shot himself in the head.

I only watched coverage on Friday when the story first broke, but I didn't get the impression that anyone was blaming it on Asperger's per se, but there was speculation that if he had other unrelated mental condition(s), that the shyness brought about by Asperger's would make picking up on other indicators difficult.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

These mass murdering school shooters are almost always either Infamy seekers or mentally ill.

Obviously, this killer was not an Infamy seeker (no past criminal record, no facebook profile, no Youtube, no homemade videos like the Columbine killers and Va Tech Killers)

I highly doubt he was mentally ill, either.

Asperger's is a social illness, and far from a mental illness. I know from experience, because I have it.

One of the many problems this kid probably had, is that he didn't act out and openly express himself. He repressed his emotions and bottled everything up. This leaves one feeling powerless and makes them like a bomb waiting to go off after long enough.

He also didn't try to make friends and connect with people. I remember when I moved to a new school in 9th grade, I'd eat my lunch standing up in the corner of the cafeteria. I didn't want to talk to people, didn't want to look at people, I was just withdrawn for 90% of the day.

A couple of the older football players took me under their wing and talked me into sitting down and eating with them. Eventually, you feel a lot better when you make friends and express yourself.

On top of that, I think the Lanza kid was probably stuck in a toxic situation at home.

People who try to impose their will and tell you how you should behave bring out the absolute worst in the personality of a person with Asperger's.

Adam Lanza's mom was a Doomsday Prepper and a gun-nut who believed the world economic structure was about to collapse. She stopped working her job, her Husband divorced her and ran away, her oldest son told police he hadn't been back home to visit her in two years ... a "normal" person would have probably slit their wrist if they had to put up with her.

I'm not trying to defend the sick and disgusting final deed of a 20-year-old ... but it is hard for a 20-year-old with autism to get away and escape from her, like her husband and his brother did. The family life was probably unraveling.

This Lanza probably repressed his rage and felt powerless. Finally he took his rage out on his mom and shot her in the head "multiple times" That was the first kill and the most personal one.

From there, He drove to his mothers old place of employment... a school 2 miles away.

I'm guessing someone who worked there was probably the other source of his rage. Probably the principle or a former boss of his mother.

After he took her out -- he no longer felt powerless and was drunk on rage and put on a demonstration.

When he heard sirens and saw first responders -- he probably had a brief moment of clarity and shot himself in the head.

had seen this article earlier on aspergers, thought i'd put up the link after reading your post:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...n_violent.html

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

had seen this article earlier on aspergers, thought i'd put up the link after reading your post:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor...n_violent.html

Good article; I second the recommendation.

My experience is purely anecdotal, of course, but I've met many people on the autism spectrum to varying degrees (Doug included) and I've yet to meet one I didn't think was capable of empathy. Lanza may well have been on the spectrum, but it's hard for me to believe that was a factor. As the article says, people with autism are more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator of it. The article Lori links to mentions other disorders as well that come with a greater possibility of acting outwards.

I'm so glad you had some kids at your school to reach out to you, Doug. That makes me feel better about high schoolers in general.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I'm so glad you had some kids at your school to reach out to you, Doug. That makes me feel better about high schoolers in general.

I was probably a lot easier for them to reach out to. My only full brother was a very good athlete, still has the school track and field record for the javelin, I think. My oldest brother (half) was the best pitcher in the city. I had two younger brothers and two older ones, and just from studying them, I knew how to act to fit in with guys.

The Asperger's diagnosis saved me from my parents.

My mom and step dad would take me in the basement and beat the hell out of me with a huge wooden paddle.

Eventually, they got so frustrated because all of the paddling, ear-pulling, and head slapping wasn't working...that they took me to a few doctors.

Dr. Barber diagnosed me with it. And liked me so much that he went around filming me. The Barber Center here used me as the film for sort of the textbook case.

Anyway, my mom and stepdad just backed off of me at that point. All of the efforts to discipline me stopped ... all of her dreams that I would one day be a CEO were crushed -- and she accepted it.

I refused to do homework -- but I would shuffle up and memorize 3 decks of playing cards ... stuff like that would drive her almost to violence.