Does the Public Understand Roe v Wade?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Danzig

joey, i think part of why some have an issue with your posts on this subject. you expect complete respect for your position on this issue-yet you have absolutely no respect for people with an opposing point of view.
you blame the scotus for what you construe as an unconscionable act-you are aware, are you not, that ever since the dawn of time, people have found ways to rid themselves of unwanted pregnancy?
and you say it 'will become a human'. perhaps, perhaps not. my mother suffered three miscarriages, my friend had a stillborn child. i could go on and on in that vein, but what's the point? you have absolutely no ability to feel empathy for anyone who you feel is completely wrong, thus there is no way you could ever see this subject in any way other than your own.


'In other words, there was no legal abortion before 1973. In times past, people would have found a way to have the baby and make it work. Or they would have planned better.'

the first sentence is incorrect. the last...what? so, you actually think people don't bother, or don't care, to use prevention because they can just go to a clinic? that's absurd-and flies in the face of the fact i posted earlier. birth rates are down, as are abortions. what does that tell you? well, you'd probably think it means less sex-but that's not the case. one thing it points to is that people, especially students, are more educated about using bc, rather than just being told 'don't have sex'.

Fair enough - if I come off that way, I apologize. It's an extremely polarizing issue for everyone concerned, and if it were not life and death, I would not react as strongly, nor would others.

I do mean to attack strongly the position of pro-abortion, but I do not mean to attack the people holding that position. I seek to frame the argument and flesh out the logic to change minds.

As to the last point - of course people take precautions, but no precautions (save abstinence) are 100% effective. And people should be educated on what all the precautions are. But - here's the thing - you did everything you could. You took precautions, but through bad luck or some bizarre circumstance, a pregnancy occurred. There is, somewhere, an answer to "Where does life begin?" If that answer is "conception", then it would be morally very wrong to destroy the developing life that started at conception. When any of us (I'm not trying to sound high and mighty here) engages in behavior that MAY cause a pregnancy - that is a risk we undertake. We try to reduce that risk as much as possible if we are not planning to expand the family. But should it occur, the responsibility for it is ours, and nobody should die as a result.

The issue and all it encompasses, along with it being a "allow to live and develop or terminate" decision is going to maximize the passions on both sides. Any lesser issue with a broader spectrum of options could not bring all this emotion.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I seek to frame the argument and flesh out the logic to change minds.

No, you want everyone to think like you do.

Don't you think peoples minds are pretty made up about this issue? I mean, are you unearthing some new argument here?

[joeydb]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

No, you want everyone to think like you do.

Don't you think peoples minds are pretty made up about this issue? I mean, are you unearthing some new argument here?

Polls have shown it hovering around 50/50 for decades. Likely means that people stick to their point of view - it's been remarkably constant.

New? Probably not. But different than how the media treats the issue, and different from the 1973 court decision's supporting philosophy, maybe.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by joeydb

Fair enough - if I come off that way, I apologize. It's an extremely polarizing issue for everyone concerned, and if it were not life and death, I would not react as strongly, nor would others.

I do mean to attack strongly the position of pro-abortion, but I do not mean to attack the people holding that position. I seek to frame the argument and flesh out the logic to change minds.

As to the last point - of course people take precautions, but no precautions (save abstinence) are 100% effective. And people should be educated on what all the precautions are. But - here's the thing - you did everything you could. You took precautions, but through bad luck or some bizarre circumstance, a pregnancy occurred. There is, somewhere, an answer to "Where does life begin?" If that answer is "conception", then it would be morally very wrong to destroy the developing life that started at conception. When any of us (I'm not trying to sound high and mighty here) engages in behavior that MAY cause a pregnancy - that is a risk we undertake. We try to reduce that risk as much as possible if we are not planning to expand the family. But should it occur, the responsibility for it is ours, and nobody should die as a result.

The issue and all it encompasses, along with it being a "allow to live and develop or terminate" decision is going to maximize the passions on both sides. Any lesser issue with a broader spectrum of options could not bring all this emotion.

yes, it is a risk. but not everyone looks at things the same way when it comes down to cold, hard reality. it's why i suggested people have some empathy in regards to people making choices. i know you think that everyone makes the decision lightly, without care. that's simply not the case. nor is every action that results in pregnancy the same.
as i've shown in the excerpts posted above, abortion is no more common after roe/wade then it was before. your comments otherwise are incorrect. the morality of the issue hasn't changed one bit in this country over the years, over the centuries actually.
what it comes down to, as with so many other things in life, is that each individual must decide for him or herself. and i promise you, there are people who are pro-choice who would never seek an abortion, and there are people who are pro-life who would. because when it comes down to it-reality is much different than talk. actions taken are far different than hypothetical situations discussed.