horse owners

it's an excellent analogy
the owners, most of who are millionaires and billionaires
complain of losing money
but the fact is the majority of bettors lose money (and probably more than they should)
and most of those are 9 to 5ers
so...kinda hard to feel too bad for the owners
when they can afford to take the risk for big reward
without it coming back on them with an eviction notice
if it things go south...

[Honu]

Some owners are very wealthy and some are not , Karen and Mickey Taylor were not wealthy people when they bought Slew but became wealthy by getting lucky and getting a good horse.
There are also factors that the public has no concept of, such as the cost for insuring a very good horse, it is mind boggling how much they pay each month to insure good horses and everytime they send them to the track either in the morning or the afternoon they hold their breath that something doesnt happen. There are so many risks involved in owning a good horse that retiring them before something tragic happens is often on peoples minds because they have invested the money ( not just with said good horse but all the crappy one's in between) and the time that it is hard not to want to make something back by retiring them to stud or broodmare duty.
I know that fans fuel the sport but really how many hard core gamblers really care if good horse doesnt race anymore really, I mean if the horse is that good they most likely wont get any odds on them anyway when they run .

Originally Posted by Honu

Some owners are very wealthy and some are not , Karen and Mickey Taylor were not wealthy people when they bought Slew but became wealthy by getting lucky and getting a good horse.
There are also factors that the public has no concept of, such as the cost for insuring a very good horse, it is mind boggling how much they pay each month to insure good horses and everytime they send them to the track either in the morning or the afternoon they hold their breath that something doesnt happen. There are so many risks involved in owning a good horse that retiring them before something tragic happens is often on peoples minds because they have invested the money ( not just with said good horse but all the crappy one's in between) and the time that it is hard not to want to make something back by retiring them to stud or broodmare duty.
I know that fans fuel the sport but really how many hard core gamblers really care if good horse doesnt race anymore really, I mean if the horse is that good they most likely wont get any odds on them anyway when they run .

ok, you want to talk Taylor's
well they raced Slew 7 times at age 4
after his triple crown season
and, like you said, they weren't wealthy...

[ELA]

I've been in the horse business as a owner, breeder, buyer/seller, for most of my adult life. I have been a fan and a gambler for even longer than that. So, first I would like to clarify a few things -- most owners are not millionaires or billionaires. Most? What are you saying here -- 51%? 75%? If you truly believe this than you are either completely and totally misinformed, very naive and judgemental, or just looking to lay blame.

Second, yes -- most owners do in fact lose money, and for the most part it is their own fault. I have made a profit every year I have been in this game. However, unlike many, I treat it, approach it, and run it like a business -- period. If I wasn't making money, I love this sport and business so much and have such a passion for them, then I would own a horse or two. However, I see opportunity. I race and place my horses very aggressively. There are others, many smaller and many bigger than me who do the same. I see plenty of owners lose money -- bad trainer, bad situation, bad advice, incompetence, and so many other reasons.

If 90% of the owners are losing money then the market and economics dictate that you must exist in the other 10%. If 90% are losing money, then there is a tremendous opportunity for the other 10%. When I draw into an 8 horse field -- I usually have half the field beat before the draw; because half the field is improperly placed. It's because most people don't play the game correctly that they lose money -- and a small % do make money.

Now, about owners doing what they want, retiring horses early, etc. -- here is the fact . . . you don't like it, tough luck. Pack up your marbles and go home. Now listen, sure, I am dissappointed that Bernardini is being retired. Henny Hughes as well. But that is life. I never hold anything against an owner for doing what they want to do. I am a huge fan. I am just not wired that way. It's their horse and that's it. Now to talk about how the gamblers fuel this business -- yes, we all know it's true. However, it is foolish to believe that gamblers across the world are going to unite and boycott racing. It's a circular arguement that goes nowhere. The other side of the coin is that if there were less, or no owners, there would be less horses, less tracks, and so on, and then there would be nothing to wager on. This arguement is right next to "my dad can beat up your dad".

It's easy to be on the sidelines or in the stands and critisize what the players do. Just remember, all you have to do is just pack up and go home.

Eric

[Honu]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

ok, you want to talk Taylor's
well they raced Slew 7 times at age 4
after his triple crown season
and, like you said, they weren't wealthy...

Yes and they did just what they wanted to do didnt they .

[Merlinsky]

Ok question I hear about "insurance premiums" in general but really how much can we guestimate that a horse like Bernardini or Henny Hughes costs in payments? What's a monthly look like?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

Ok question I hear about "insurance premiums" in general but really how much can we guestimate that a horse like Bernardini or Henny Hughes costs in payments? What's a monthly look like?

Let's figure that Bernardini is worth about $60 million. The insurance premium is usually about 5% of the horse's value. So if Bernardini is worth $60 million and they want to insure him for $60 million that means it would cost about $3 million a year to insure Bernardini.

[ELA]

The insurance premium is one aspect -- the other is capacity. I am not saying that you couldn't get $60m of coverage, but there has been drastic changes in the insurance and more importantly reinsurance marketplace.

I don't count other people's money, literally speaking, and there is an irony there considering I am in the financial business and exclusively work with wealthy people, high-net-worth/income, etc. However, if you have a horse that you would like to insure for $60m and the cost to insure him is $3m -- that might be a true "out of pocket" as the horse may not have earned $3m. I am not defending those who own the horses or critisizing them for that matter. You want to play you have to pay. That's the price of admission.

There is an economic side to this. People make financial decisions for two reasons -- economics and emotions.

Eric

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Let's figure that Bernardini is worth about $60 million. The insurance premium is usually about 5% of the horse's value. So if Bernardini is worth $60 million and they want to insure him for $60 million that means it would cost about $3 million a year to insure Bernardini.

I understand that profitability can easily revolve around a 5% expense. But still...I can't help thinking that it just might be okay to end up with $57 million for Bernardini rather than $60 million, and have the pleasure of watching him run as a 4-yr-old. (and that assumes that he would only break even on costs/income while running).

I understand there are other risks, too. Mainly, that a horse like Bernardini may not live up to expectations as a 4-yr-old, thus reducing that $60 million estimate of worth.

Perhaps that is the main reason horses are rushed to stud--fear that they are not as good as the market currently values them.

--Dunbar

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Let's figure that Bernardini is worth about $60 million. The insurance premium is usually about 5% of the horse's value. So if Bernardini is worth $60 million and they want to insure him for $60 million that means it would cost about $3 million a year to insure Bernardini.

BTW, here is an interesting question -- so the owner(s) of Bernardini can easily afford this type of insurance premium from "other wealth" and perhaps as such, the fans feel a certain way (of course for other reasons as well).

What if Bernardini or a similar type of horse worth the same money was owned by a working class guy, or someone who did not have wealth per se. If that person did not have other assets or couldn't get a farm to offer up enough real cash, etc., and they could not "afford" the premium -- would people feel differently? What about if there was an estate tax/liquidity issue (ie: Joe Robbie and the Miami Dolphins)?

Any thoughts? Thank you.

Eric

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

ill give a little owners perspective from my point of view. alotta owners especially people who have been in the game/business for a long time will take the money while its there more times than not. theyve had past experiences(or heard ofa thousand times over) where theyve been offered money for their horse and they turned it down only to have negatives to follow such as the horse being injured/broke down or not running up to the potential that was once seen in the animal. it happened in my case with my horse. 3 starts after i had him with only 1 3rd i was offered actually a little more than what i claimed him for by a guy@mountaineer who saw him run 3rd on the grass in indiana. i turned the money down and have come out- obviously ever since financially. i dont regret my decision at all becuase i love dan and got personal attachment to the horse but most owners in my same spot woulda said sold in a heartbeat. lol i promise if i ever own a derby winner they will return for their 4yo year on the track. speaking of the derby were running 1@CD next week

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

ill give a little owners perspective from my point of view. alotta owners especially people who have been in the game/business for a long time will take the money while its there more times than not. theyve had past experiences(or heard ofa thousand times over) where theyve been offered money for their horse and they turned it down only to have negatives to follow such as the horse being injured/broke down or not running up to the potential that was once seen in the animal. it happened in my case with my horse. 3 starts after i had him with only 1 3rd i was offered actually a little more than what i claimed him for by a guy@mountaineer who saw him run 3rd on the grass in indiana. i turned the money down and have come out- obviously ever since financially. i dont regret my decision at all becuase i love dan and got personal attachment to the horse but most owners in my same spot woulda said sold in a heartbeat. lol i promise if i ever own a derby winner they will return for their 4yo year on the track. speaking of the derby were running 1@CD next week

Good luck at CD next week... post a reminder so I can watch out, will you?