My Happy Face

[Calzone Lord]

Tiz Wonderful was basically a monster 2-year-old who got hurt badly at the end of his 2yo season -- and couldn't return from the injury.

Lots of those scattered throughout history -- a lot of them do extremely well as sires...especially the better bred ones.

Tiz Wonderful worked a 20.60 quarter at Fasig Tipton Calder -- tied with Forest Music for the fastest in history at that most elite 2yo sale.

A huge pile of Graded stakes winners went 2f under-tack at Calder -- and only 4 horses had broke 21 there.

You knew Tiz Wonderful was a mess and put together poorly because he only brought less than $500,000 after blowing up the stopwatch.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

The determination of how much talent a horse has is extremely subjective, but you're stacking him up against horses that accomplished A LOT as 3YOs while clearly having tremendous talent. One went from a maiden winner to Preakness winner in three and a half months then followed it up with two wins against older horses after placing in the other two legs of the Triple Crown.

The other had graded stakes wins from 7-9 furlongs on two different surfaces and very impressive 2nd place finishes in arguably the two toughest dirt races in this country. Curlin and Hard Spun were immensely talented 3YOs by modern standards.

Tiz Wonderful outlasted a 2YO (Any Given Saturday) who developed more as a 3YO after beating two horrendous fields to start his career.

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

Tiz Wonderful was basically a monster 2-year-old who got hurt badly at the end of his 2yo season -- and couldn't return from the injury.

Lots of those scattered throughout history -- a lot of them do extremely well as sires...especially the better bred ones.

Tiz Wonderful worked a 20.60 quarter at Fasig Tipton Calder -- tied with Forest Music for the fastest in history at that most elite 2yo sale.

A huge pile of Graded stakes winners went 2f under-tack at Calder -- and only 4 horses had broke 21 there.

You knew Tiz Wonderful was a mess and put together poorly because he only brought less than $500,000 after blowing up the stopwatch.

Every once in awhile you see a horse with so much potential, and such brilliance, you know there is no way they are going to last.

Ala, Cee's Tizzy, Indian Charlie, Melair, Akinemod, and to a degree, Tiz Wonderful.

It's a pretty obvious thing if you saw that horse run.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Every once in awhile you see a horse with so much potential, and such brilliance, you know there is no way they are going to last.

Ala, Cee's Tizzy, Indian Charlie, Melair, Akinemod, and to a degree, Tiz Wonderful.

It's a pretty obvious thing if you saw that horse run.

I was as big a Tiz Wonderful fan as you can be...but you're being ridiculous right now.

Did KYrosesinmay steal your log in?

[Brilliance]

Ala Danseuse,Mark Henning trained,( Mr. Prospector - Young Ballerina, by Nijinsky II) .
Finished after two starts.

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Brilliance

Ala Danseuse,Mark Henning trained,( Mr. Prospector - Young Ballerina, by Nijinsky II) .
Finished after two starts.

She was no Jaycito...but yeah she was VERY good.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I was as big a Tiz Wonderful fan as you can be...but you're being ridiculous right now.

Did KYrosesinmay steal your log in?

How am I being ridiculous?

Did you watch that horse run before he got hurt?

I think the problem here is that most people way over estimate the abilities of Street Sense, Hard Spun, AGS and Curlin.

The only one of those I have any reservations about is Curlin.

I am curious. Where, on ability only, do you think Danzig ranked in his crop (1980 3yos)???

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I think the problem here is that most people way over estimate the abilities of Street Sense, Hard Spun, AGS and Curlin.

They actually achieved stuff.

You're going to get the same reaction that you would get if you said Jeff George was the best QB or Bo Jackson or Marcus Dupree was the best RB.

[rpncaine]

Jeff was the best QB....at Warren Central HS.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by rpncaine

Jeff was the best QB....at Warren Central HS.

A lot of the most reputable scouts have said he was the best high school quarterback of all-time...and that if there ever was such a thing as the Quarterback Olympics -- in his prime he would have beaten anyone else in there prime.

He just didn't advance well as things became more complicated -- with running backs and race horses it's pretty much injures and physical setbacks that stop them instead of mental things.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

They actually achieved stuff.

You're going to get the same reaction that you would get if you said Jeff George was the best QB or Bo Jackson or Marcus Dupree was the best RB.

I guess me saying on ability only, not accomplishments was missed?

[Danzig]

it's very hard to quantify ability without accomplishments. we've all seen our share of amazing performances-but without accomplishments, how well can you really judge talent?
tiz wonderful might have just been a very precocious but ultimately unsound horse. danzig was mentioned-he seems to have had ability, but three races really isn't enough to give a true measure of how good he was. there's no real record to go on. and there's plenty of others out there like that, who showed a lot of promise, who might have been the top member of their crop-but there's no way really to know for sure. and it's part of being a really good horse being able to prove it?

[Dahoss]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

How am I being ridiculous?

Did you watch that horse run before he got hurt?

I think the problem here is that most people way over estimate the abilities of Street Sense, Hard Spun, AGS and Curlin.

The only one of those I have any reservations about is Curlin.

I am curious. Where, on ability only, do you think Danzig ranked in his crop (1980 3yos)???

I was at Saratoga the day he broke his maiden, so yeah I did watch him run before he got hurt. He was real talented.

Then he got hurt, they threw him to the wolves and he got hurt even worse and had to retire. I'm not denying he looked like he might be better than any of them. He just never proved it.

Meanwhile Curlin accomplished a lot. So did Street Sense and Hard Spun to a lesser extent.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

I was at Saratoga the day he broke his maiden, so yeah I did watch him run before he got hurt. He was real talented.

Then he got hurt, they threw him to the wolves and he got hurt even worse and had to retire. I'm not denying he looked like he might be better than any of them. He just never proved it.

Meanwhile Curlin accomplished a lot. So did Street Sense and Hard Spun to a lesser extent.

Yup, and I acknowledged all of that.

My point was simply that TW had more natural ability than the other horses in that crop. That he accomplished next to nothing is irrelevant to that statement.