The Dodgers/Red Sox Trade

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Really? 2008-2011 he was one of the best 15 starters in baseball (probably top 10). Being that there are 30 teams that would make him not only a number 1 starter but one of the top number 1 starters. Compare his numbers to Cole Hamels who just got $165 million dollar contract. Lester is having a BAD year, no doubt. His he is allowing way more hits, HR's and BB's than he ever has and is striking out fewer which is a disturbing trend. However a young pitcher with an established track record that suddenly has a bad year is almost always a physical issue that they may or may not reveal.

Your statement is absolutely not correct. He was unquestionably a number 1 starter from the time he became a rotation regular in 2008 and this year he is unquestionably barely a number 5 starter based on his production or lack of it.

A lot of teams don't have a number one starter and a couple of teams have more than one guy who could qualify. When you play for a perennial playoff team like the red sox, what would qualify as a number one guy is different than what would qualify in kc. Is that fair to say?

Either way, here are a few guys that I think have been better over the last few years:

Sabathia
King Felix
Verlander
Lincecum
Cliff lee
Kershaw
Weaver
Halliday
Matt Cain
Chris carpenter
David price
Wainwright

And there a few more where a serious debate can be made.

I think Lester is a talented pitcher but do you really want that guy out there game 7? Being that there are only 8 playoff teams (10 now) Boston was hoping for him to be with the group above. In my opinion, he hasn't been as good. He gets the stats and he's won games but he hasn't delivered the way they needed him and that is a big reason they have disappointed so much over the last few years.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

A lot of teams don't have a number one starter and a couple of teams have more than one guy who could qualify. When you play for a perennial playoff team like the red sox, what would qualify as a number one guy is different than what would qualify in kc. Is that fair to say?

Either way, here are a few guys that I think have been better over the last few years:

Sabathia
King Felix
Verlander
Lincecum
Cliff lee
Kershaw
Weaver
Halliday
Matt Cain
Chris carpenter
David price
Wainwright

And there a few more where a serious debate can be made.

I think Lester is a talented pitcher but do you really want that guy out there game 7? Being that there are only 8 playoff teams (10 now) Boston was hoping for him to be with the group above. In my opinion, he hasn't been as good. He gets the stats and he's won games but he hasn't delivered the way they needed him and that is a big reason they have disappointed so much over the last few years.

Your last paragraph is so talk radioish. Do I want that guy out there in game 7? Well I would want him out there over 90% of starters in baseball so does that count? I dont know what you base your opinion on but saying a guy "gets the stats" in baseball is, uh, unusual? He hasnt delivered? Based on what? He has delivered 4 seasons of very good pitching in a hitters park with so-so defenses behind him for several of those seasons.

John Lester 2008-2011
65-32
3.33
135 ERA+
20.8 WAR

Lester 2008-2012
73-42
3.58
125 ERA+
20.6 WAR

David Price 2009-2012
57-31
3.21
121 ERA+
12.4 WAR

Cain 2008-2012
60-49
3.11
126 ERA+
13.2 WAR

Lincecum 2008-2011
62-36
2.88
143 ERA+
21.6 WAR

Wainwright 2008-2012
63-32
2.88
138 ERA+
15.7 WAR

Carpenter 2009-2011* (Injured in 2008 and 2012)
44-22
3.02
128 ERA+
12.5 WAR

Weaver 2008-2012
74-41
3.23
126 ERA+
20 WAR

Sabathia 2008-2012
89-36
3.11
140 ERA+
26.1 WAR

Halladay 2008-2012
85-44
2.74
151 ERA+
30.9 WAR

Lee 2008-2012
68-40
2.96
139 ERA+
27.4 WAR

Hernandez 2008-2012
68-47
2.81
142 ERA+
24.7 WAR

Verlander
84-47
3.33
129 ERA+
24.9 WAR

Kershaw
59-35
2.87
135 ERA+
21.6 WAR

I didnt use Lester or Lincecums 2012 season because they are so out of character. Lincecum is having a far worse season this year than Lester.

It is really hard to say that Lester doesnt fit right in the middle of this group. Of course the NL guys have an advantage numbers wise because they dont have to face the DH and several guys here like Hernandez, Kershaw, Cain, Lincecum all play in decidely pitchers parks. Lester isnt the best pitcher in the group by any measure but he is absolutely one of the best starting pitchers in the game and is unquestionably a solid number 1 starter.