8/25 (SAR): Travers, King's Bishop, Test (G1's), Ballston Spa (G3)

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I can understand being a "glass if half full" kind of guy but at some point, you have to also realize that it's still half empty. Saying this is the best of what we've got left is not the same as saying it's good. If you put 11 $40k claimers in the field, you'd still have 11 3yos in a grade one race. A competitive race, a good betting race, doesn't make it a good race. If you turn on the men's 100m final at the Olympics and Bolt, Blake, Gatlin, Powell, and Gay are all missing, it's not even worth watching. Sure, the remaining runners could end up in an eight-way dead-heat and it would make for an exciting finish....but the reason we watch sports at the highest level is to see the highest quality. Through no fault of it's own, this race completely lacks it.

Jennie Rees from the Louisville Courier-Journal has this posted on her blog. "My mantra: There's never a bad Derby, some are just better than others."

Agreed entirely that the race does not have the highest quality. A glance at the PPs makes this indisputable.

The very fact, however, that people bemoan the race because its quality, top to bottom, is lacking, is a function of people looking for something to criticize. I don't think we have any future superstars (edit - in this race), and we certainly have no current stars...

They can't criticize the card, the lack of claiming races, the full fields, and the other good stakes races...leaving this to be the lone critical element...I guess that's why we have message boards. It's tiring and predictable.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Jennie Rees from the Louisville Courier-Journal has this posted on her blog. "My mantra: There's never a bad Derby, some are just better than others."

Agreed entirely that the race does not have the highest quality. A glance at the PPs makes this indisputable.

The very fact, however, that people bemoan the race because its quality, top to bottom, is lacking, is a function of people looking for something to criticize. I don't think we have any future superstars (edit - in this race), and we certainly have no current stars...

They can't criticize the card, the lack of claiming races, the full fields, and the other good stakes races...leaving this to be the lone critical element...I guess that's why we have message boards. It's tiring and predictable.

And as customers we have the right to criticize the product being delivered. And you being a racing insider is doing what racing insiders always do. Dismiss our complaint and talk down to us like we dont know what the hell we are talking about.

[RockHardTen1985]

Originally Posted by jms62

And as customers we have the right to criticize the product being delivered. And you being a racing insider is doing what racing insiders always do. Dismiss our complaint and talk down to us like we dont know what the hell we are talking about.

The term racing insider, is silly IMO.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

The term racing insider, is silly IMO.

Making that statement without giving any reasoning behind it is silly IMO but everyone is entitled to an opinion. Dismissing ones opinion out of hand and talking down to them is what rankles people. Of course those that do that will always fall back on the tired, you mistook what i said line.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jms62

And as customers we have the right to criticize the product being delivered. And you being a racing insider is doing what racing insiders always do. Dismiss our complaint and talk down to us like we dont know what the hell we are talking about.

Of course, the irony is that Pat works for a company that has developed the most innovative and fan friendly technology in the game.

[OldDog]

Don't forget, fellow dark-state-ers, NBC is carrying these races live 4-6 PM.

[Danzig]

ok, question. do people want a good betting race? yes. is this a good betting race? i think it is.
now, of course one wants the big races to draw the big names, but in the end, don't you want a good betting race? obviously the race is a victim of the war of attrition. exactly what could nyra have done to get a better group? i think criticism of nyra in this case is unwarranted. to complain is to suggest there could have been something done. how could they have produced a better field quality-wise?

[tywizard]

Can we return to handicapping these racings instead of complaining? Someone will win each of them...I'd like to figure out who.

[-BT-]

Very admirable of team Peras International to enter Yara for the Test

think Contested gets softened up in the test, and don't even want to think about how many puns Durkin has with "TEST" and "CONTESTED" if she wins
*beatable

after looking at the entire card, i'm not sure if it's a good thing or bad thing that the only races that look "playable" are the stake races. Really tough card for tomorrow


-bt-

[RockHardTen1985]

Ill go ahead and post this again. Ill never understand it. A big weekend like this and people want to argue about NYRA and other crap rather then discuss the actual races.
Ill add that Im going to play Eddie K, and back up with Lukas. Try to get through this 8th with just 11,12.

Is Battle Hardened a live price or a trap in the 8th? He is 15-1ML, but feels like he will be around 6-1 at post time. Eddie K has great stats first time turf and dirt to turf. There is no speed in this race at all. He figures to be right up on the lead. Looking for some opinions on this race and this horse.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Danzig

ok, question. do people want a good betting race? yes. is this a good betting race? i think it is.
now, of course one wants the big races to draw the big names, but in the end, don't you want a good betting race? obviously the race is a victim of the war of attrition. exactly what could nyra have done to get a better group? i think criticism of nyra in this case is unwarranted. to complain is to suggest there could have been something done. how could they have produced a better field quality-wise?

The complaint is not with NYRA. As you said, they couldn't do more to get a better field. It's with the state of the sport in general. I have read a few people saying how it's a good betting race. That may be so but the fifth at Yavapai can also be a good betting race. Any race at any track on any day can be. When it's a race that's supposed to be of the highest quality, I don't think it's wrong to have a complaint when the quality is severely lacking. I feel like every time people make excuses for the continuing decline in quality, it will take that much longer to figure out what changes need to be made to start turning things around.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The complaint is not with NYRA. As you said, they couldn't do more to get a better field. It's with the state of the sport in general. I have read a few people saying how it's a good betting race. That may be so but the fifth at Yavapai can also be a good betting race. Any race at any track on any day can be. When it's a race that's supposed to be of the highest quality, I don't think it's wrong to have a complaint when the quality is severely lacking. I feel like every time people make excuses for the continuing decline in quality, it will take that much longer to figure out what changes need to be made to start turning things around.

i think for some, yes, it is a complaint with nyra.
yeah, everyone knows what changes need to be made. the trick is getting those who benefit from the current climate to make that change. after all, how long can breeders benefit if the sport suffers? if the sport declines far enough, the demand for horses will also drop. so, the cannibalization of top horses in order to breed would eventually lead to the end of breeding...
however, in recent years, young sires' have declined in popularity due to the economy, so that points to a self-correction.
but this year imo is an anomaly. these horses have suffered legitimate injuries. even if not normally career-ending, they certainly were season-ending. this is the type of occurrence that should cause a halt and re-examination by breeders.
take i'll have another for instance....i think there are two reasons he didn't get any real interest. one is commercial viability. his son hasn't exactly set the world on fire, and iha could be his one blip. but the other thing i wonder about-he's an unsound horse. it caused issues for him at two, and probably contributed to the early end of his career at three. is he actually the type of horse one wants to sire future racehorses?

i don't think this years travers is a good indication that the sport is going south in a hurry. i think it's just suffered because of a run of bad luck. but i do think people really need to take a step back and re-evaluate exactly why they choose who they choose for stud and broodmare purposes. the breeders would be doing themselves and everyone else involved if they would take a bit more effort in choosing who to stand.

another thing...just like in human medicine, veterinary science has taken huge strides. but in both cases, there hasn't been a real surge in better health or longevity. perhaps everyone involved needs to take some real time to consider what they're doing, how, and why. and where does it take them? are they improving the breed, and thus the sport?