Saturday Saratoga Race Card

[Alan07]

Originally Posted by mark2061mn

The point is that this is supposed to be the premier meet in the country. They only run 40 days, the SATURDAY card should not consist of 6 $20,000 claiming/md claiming races. Stop carding 10 and 11 races on Mon, Wed, Thu, might not have this problem.

We wouldn't be seeing these over-the-top 11 and 12 races card if NYRA wasn't being blown up after the meet is over. There are not enough horses to fill competitive races 5 & 6 days a week now (nationally, not just NY) unless you tap into the cheap claimers, and only going to get worse as the foal crops continue to decline. Be lucky the slots are still supporting purses.

[PatCummings]

I just don't know why everything needs to be a superlative.

I think it has to do with our society and the need to provide immediate context on everything - there is absolutely no arguing this Saturday's Saratoga card doesn't have the same degree of quality of other traditional weekend cards in the past. So - for that, it's impossible to disagree.

Now, is it a problem? I don't think so.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Pico Central in a romp.

Because Solis was up for 2 of those wins, right?

[pointman]

Personally I will take a $20K claimer with a full field over a stake with a 6 horse field with one horse that overmatches the field at less then even money and two horses will scratch.

Those $20K claimers can yield some nice prices.

[richard]

Exactly. They are still competitive races and as challenging to handicap as any.

[10 pnt move up]

I think you want a good mix of races, last thing I want to see is 3-4 2yo maidens.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think you want a good mix of races, last thing I want to see is 3-4 2yo maidens.

But others, like me, love these races. Players that are at their best at claimers could tell you the BC card is no good as clearly there is no mix of races those days.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

I just don't know why everything needs to be a superlative.

I think it has to do with our society and the need to provide immediate context on everything - there is absolutely no arguing this Saturday's Saratoga card doesn't have the same degree of quality of other traditional weekend cards in the past. So - for that, it's impossible to disagree.

Now, is it a problem? I don't think so.

Impossible to disagree? You did exactly that on your first post on the thread.

[PatCummings]

Originally Posted by jms62

Impossible to disagree? You did exactly that on your first post on the thread.

No, not really.

I complained about people complaining about claiming races at Saratoga on a Saturday. Factually, it is unarguable that there are more claiming races this Saturday than any of the Saturday's before and likely after. I accept and understand the card is this way, and rather choose to enjoy racing at Saratoga no matter what is thrown out there.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

No, not really.

I complained about people complaining about claiming races at Saratoga on a Saturday. Factually, it is unarguable that there are more claiming races this Saturday than any of the Saturday's before and likely after. I accept and understand the card is this way, and rather choose to enjoy racing at Saratoga no matter what is thrown out there.

Originally Posted by PatCummings

I knew it was a matter of time before someone complained. Predictable. Take a look at the previous weekends at the meet. You write the races for the horses you have and can fill - they may have pushed a bit hard the first few weeks, but given that this is the only weekend without a G1, maybe it's a bit of a sacrifice. Surely we can make it through...

I'll take a "bad" Saturday, which I contend it actually isn't, over a good day just about anywhere else.

You can spin it anway you like. IMO if you had answered the guys post like NTAMM did (tactfully) I believe the issue would have been wrapped up after that. Saratoga usually has a mid meet weekend that is slower than the rest. Your response was more of attack the poster and dismiss their claims out of hand. This is a typical and "predictable" response by many in the industry in this situation. Kudos to Cannon for his candor.

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Dahoss

Of course people can complain and for Saratoga standards, the quality is subpar.

This is horse racing in 2012. There aren't enough good horses to fill cards like we did 10 years ago.

Exactly!

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

But others, like me, love these races. Players that are at their best at claimers could tell you the BC card is no good as clearly there is no mix of races those days.

The Breeders Cup Card is and always was hand down, by a mile, the best card of the year.

Almost everyone able shows up (only those crazy sup fees for horses with obscure pedigrees sometimes keep contenders away) and most importantly -- you get a mix of horses from all different regions...which is the test any good handicapper should want.

Even among people considered good handicappers -- a lot of them focus and waste way too much of their energy on a home track and pay little to no attention elsewhere. There aren't enough racing days like it anymore where you get entire cards loaded with quality shippers from all different regions.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The Breeders Cup Card is and always was hand down, by a mile, the best card of the year.

Almost everyone able shows up (only those crazy sup fees for horses with obscure pedigrees sometimes keep contenders away) and most importantly -- you get a mix of horses from all different regions...which is the test any good handicapper should want.

Even among people considered good handicappers -- a lot of them focus and waste way too much of their energy on a home track and pay little to no attention elsewhere. There aren't enough racing days like it anymore where you get entire cards loaded with quality shippers from all different regions.

And you don't have to deal with trainers using the race as a prep for something else.

[OTM Al]

Originally Posted by Calzone Lord

The Breeders Cup Card is and always was hand down, by a mile, the best card of the year.

Almost everyone able shows up (only those crazy sup fees for horses with obscure pedigrees sometimes keep contenders away) and most importantly -- you get a mix of horses from all different regions...which is the test any good handicapper should want.

Even among people considered good handicappers -- a lot of them focus and waste way too much of their energy on a home track and pay little to no attention elsewhere. There aren't enough racing days like it anymore where you get entire cards loaded with quality shippers from all different regions.

I don't disagree on that standpoint, but I guaranteee you there are guys out there who don't touch it or watch it because it isn't what they play. For them it's not a good card.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

I don't disagree on that standpoint, but I guaranteee you there are guys out there who don't touch it or watch it because it isn't what they play. For them it's not a good card.

I don't know -- a dedicated horseplayer that does not bet or even watch the Breeders Cup? To me, they would be the ultimate outlier.

[OTM Al]

It's extreme I'll give you, but a guy that's strictly a gambler could care less. You and I are clearly in between the extremes, we gamble but we also enjoy the sport. Hardcore gambler just cares about winning. He doesnt care who is the best ever unless its making money for him. Guys that run around claiming its only about the gambling and then get gushy on Derby day crack me up.

[PatCummings]

Regardless of what people thought of the quality of the card on Saturday, they didn't shy away.

11 races (6 claimers) - total handle of $11,958,086 (with mostly sloppy/off-turf)

The same Saturday on the calendar a year ago had 3 claiming races, a G1 turf stake, and was fast/firm and handled $11,927,406 (it did go up against the Arlington Million card, which is a weekend later this year).

Monmouth Park ran 11 races in similar wet conditions on Saturday, handled $3,801,312. A year ago, they ran 12 races fast/firm and handled $6,191,436

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by PatCummings

Regardless of what people thought of the quality of the card on Saturday, they didn't shy away.

11 races (6 claimers) - total handle of $11,958,086 (with mostly sloppy/off-turf)

The same Saturday on the calendar a year ago had 3 claiming races, a G1 turf stake, and was fast/firm and handled $11,927,406 (it did go up against the Arlington Million card, which is a weekend later this year).

Monmouth Park ran 11 races in similar wet conditions on Saturday, handled $3,801,312. A year ago, they ran 12 races fast/firm and handled $6,191,436

Based on this logic when Gov Cuomo slashes the purse subsidy the new NYRA can just go ahead and get rid of all those good races and just run claimers and the handle will stay the same.

[Alan07]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Based on this logic when Gov Cuomo slashes the purse subsidy the new NYRA can just go ahead and get rid of all those good races and just run claimers and the handle will stay the same.

and when the slot money disappears there will have to be an overhaul of the racing calendar in New York.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Alan07

and when the slot money disappears there will have to be an overhaul of the racing calendar in New York.

Yeah might try out the no days schedule