tha lava man thread....

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by redransom

They don't come out here because they get their butts kicked virtually every time...

Two names off the top of my head? Happy Ticket and Perfect Drift. Do you really want me to continue?

That's why I'm a huge Wait a While fan. She not only did it, she did it twice. Oh and Todd Pletcher, too. When he ships 'em, they're ready to run! And he's had some success aside from Wait a While. Remember Texas Glitter? Of course they're both turfers, but still...

I want to know what the difference is between shipping from CA to NY and shipping from NY to CA? Answer: nothing. California horses seem to do it all the time while when NY horses dare do it, which is rarely because they know better, they typically get their a$$es kicked.

It's a fact! Hell, more foreign horses ship here and win than NY (and, possibly, KY) horses!

I would guess that there is a simple reason that more horses ship towards the east to race. It's because that is where the majority big race opportunities are. If you're based in the east there is usually no need to go all the way out west to find a race. It's not because they get their but kicked everytime when horses go out west.

[King Glorious]

I think it's a number of reasons. First, everyone knows but hates to admit that there is a media bias towards the East Coast. There are far more major media markets on the East and the majority of the population of our country lives east of the Mississippi. Nine times out of 10, if u have a horse that wins the Suburban, Whitney, and JCGC vs. a horse that wins the SA Hcp, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic, the Eastern one will be considered the better horse. That's just the way it is. A Vosburgh winner will be considered better than an Ancient Title winner. A Turf Classic winner will be considered better than an Oak Tree Invitational winner. The list could go on and on.

Second is that there is a different tempo to the racing out here in California than there is back east. Out here, if u don't have speed, u can forget it. It's the name of the game here. U can run in Florida or NY and have 23, 47 speed in routes and be a lone front runner. U bring that out here and u will find yourself with plenty of company on the lead at best and at worst, five lengths back. I don't think that many trainers or horses are prepared for the faster tempo of racing here and they get caught with their pants down.

Third, as BTW alluded to, is the prestige of the races. Many of those big NY races are 100 years old or so and they have far more prestige in them than the races out here. There is more prestige to winning a race at Saratoga than anywhere else in the country. Ask 100 owners would they rather win the $1 million Delaware Hcp or the Go for Wand at Saratoga worth less than half of that amount and I'd bet u would get at least 80% in favor of the GfW. If the choice is between the GfW and the Hirsch at Del Mar, it might be 90% in favor of the GfW.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I think it's a number of reasons. First, everyone knows but hates to admit that there is a media bias towards the East Coast. There are far more major media markets on the East and the majority of the population of our country lives east of the Mississippi. Nine times out of 10, if u have a horse that wins the Suburban, Whitney, and JCGC vs. a horse that wins the SA Hcp, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic, the Eastern one will be considered the better horse. That's just the way it is. A Vosburgh winner will be considered better than an Ancient Title winner. A Turf Classic winner will be considered better than an Oak Tree Invitational winner. The list could go on and on.

Second is that there is a different tempo to the racing out here in California than there is back east. Out here, if u don't have speed, u can forget it. It's the name of the game here. U can run in Florida or NY and have 23, 47 speed in routes and be a lone front runner. U bring that out here and u will find yourself with plenty of company on the lead at best and at worst, five lengths back. I don't think that many trainers or horses are prepared for the faster tempo of racing here and they get caught with their pants down.

Third, as BTW alluded to, is the prestige of the races. Many of those big NY races are 100 years old or so and they have far more prestige in them than the races out here. There is more prestige to winning a race at Saratoga than anywhere else in the country. Ask 100 owners would they rather win the $1 million Delaware Hcp or the Go for Wand at Saratoga worth less than half of that amount and I'd bet u would get at least 80% in favor of the GfW. If the choice is between the GfW and the Hirsch at Del Mar, it might be 90% in favor of the GfW.

All points very well taken. I talked to a trainer friend of mine about this very thing this morning; he said, really, it isn't about East vs. West as much as it's just planning races for a (good) horse based on a circuit. Good trainers don't think their good horses need to take their tracks with them, but that aside, if someone is based in, say, New York it just makes much more sense to plan a campaign around where he normally runs. The same thing applies to California-based horses. And there is a strong Eastern bias when it comes to the Eclipses, but that's just geography.

I will say, however, that my future Hall of Fame trainer friend (and former classmate) did say the level of competition out here is a big factor in determining whether or not to ship. His point was why ship all the way across the country and know you're going to have to beat extremely tough California horses when you can stay home? Tracks have nothing to do with it, he said, and if anything the polytrack is now an added incentive to come out here and roll the dice. I think I'll take his word on it.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

I will say, however, that my future Hall of Fame trainer friend (and former classmate) did say the level of competition out here is a big factor in determining whether or not to ship. His point was why ship all the way across the country and know you're going to have to beat extremely tough California horses when you can stay home? Tracks have nothing to do with it, he said, and if anything the polytrack is now an added incentive to come out here and roll the dice. I think I'll take his word on it.

Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars.

HEY NOW! Leave out Preachinatthebar... I love that horse.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

HEY NOW! Leave out Preachinatthebar... I love that horse.

Very beautiful. Not very fast.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Very beautiful. Not very fast.

I know... he's like Silverfoot to me.

I loved Silver Charm too... (he was fast, though.) LOL

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars.

That's the best you could come up with? I thought you were actually a follower of the game. Now I can see that can't be the case...

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Yeah, Super Frolic, Magnum, Ace Blue and Preachinatthebar are superstars.

Of course you omit, Brother Derek, T.H. Approval, King's Drama, Seek Gold, Perfect Drift and Giacomo, who, while not superstars, are Grade 1 winners vanquished by Lava Man during his 2006 California Campaign.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by FairPlay

Of course you omit, Brother Derek, T.H. Approval, King's Drama, Seek Gold, Perfect Drift and Giacomo, who, while not superstars, are Grade 1 winners vanquished by Lava Man during his 2006 California Campaign.

The defense rests. If you think any East Coast trainers aren't shipping out there because they're scared of facing that crew, plus the four I mentioned.. Ugh..

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The defense rests. If you think any East Coast trainers aren't shipping out there because they're scared of facing that crew, plus the four I mentioned.. Ugh..

That's some scary contingency.

I got frightened just reading their names.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

The defense rests. If you think any East Coast trainers aren't shipping out there because they're scared of facing that crew, plus the four I mentioned.. Ugh..

The fact is that they don't ship and try very often. I still say if it was that easy they would be in on Friday and out on Sunday.