tha lava man thread....

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

Well, I'm not all over the past decade, but just in the last few years? The reason there have been far more West Coast shippers winning out here? Because nobody here ships out there! Why do you think that is? The money's just as good.. It's gotta be that it takes a special kind of horse to run on those speedways like they run on the dirt out here.

And you aren't getting my point, because my point is that shipping from NY to KY or KY to NY or NY to FL or FL to KY, etc. is much easier than shipping from NY to CA because there are two types of racing. NY, KY, FL (I would've said IL before all those breakdowns), etc. and CA.

If you think I'm wrong, then you come up with a better reason why East Coast owners and trainers largely refuse to go out West.

They don't come out here because they get their butts kicked virtually every time...

Two names off the top of my head? Happy Ticket and Perfect Drift. Do you really want me to continue?

That's why I'm a huge Wait a While fan. She not only did it, she did it twice. Oh and Todd Pletcher, too. When he ships 'em, they're ready to run! And he's had some success aside from Wait a While. Remember Texas Glitter? Of course they're both turfers, but still...

I want to know what the difference is between shipping from CA to NY and shipping from NY to CA? Answer: nothing. California horses seem to do it all the time while when NY horses dare do it, which is rarely because they know better, they typically get their a$$es kicked.

It's a fact! Hell, more foreign horses ship here and win than NY (and, possibly, KY) horses!

[blackthroatedwind]

A major reason you will have more CA horses shipping to NY for big races than NY horses to CA is the prestige of the races. The races in NY simply mean more to breeders than the races in California. There are VERY few races that matter at that end that are run in California.

[ELA]

I don't follow CA racing but like many I've watched LM's races. I've gone back and watched the replays as well. Anyway, I've never seen him up close or spent any time around him. Even if I did, I am not a trainer and can't really say anything from that perspective.

However -- aside from all the other obstacles mentioned, don't some think that this was compounded by the bute issue, or in this case lack of?

In CA, don't they allow raceday bute? Not in KY -- right?

Eric

[2Hot4TV]

I really tought Lava Man was going to run big in the Classic because of the way he was training at Hollywood. When Euro said he looked great in Keenland I really , really thought he was going to show what he's made of, but then I saw him before the race that he was focused on the crowd. I could tell he was different than at home. Lava Man is not a shipper and that's that. Too bad because I would of Loved to seen the big three rolling to the wire.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by redransom

They don't come out here because they get their butts kicked virtually every time...

Two names off the top of my head? Happy Ticket and Perfect Drift. Do you really want me to continue?

That's why I'm a huge Wait a While fan. She not only did it, she did it twice. Oh and Todd Pletcher, too. When he ships 'em, they're ready to run! And he's had some success aside from Wait a While. Remember Texas Glitter? Of course they're both turfers, but still...

I want to know what the difference is between shipping from CA to NY and shipping from NY to CA? Answer: nothing. California horses seem to do it all the time while when NY horses dare do it, which is rarely because they know better, they typically get their a$$es kicked.

It's a fact! Hell, more foreign horses ship here and win than NY (and, possibly, KY) horses!

I would guess that there is a simple reason that more horses ship towards the east to race. It's because that is where the majority big race opportunities are. If you're based in the east there is usually no need to go all the way out west to find a race. It's not because they get their but kicked everytime when horses go out west.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Personally I think the reason many horses have had a problem shipping and winning on California dirt is the dirt itself. The tracks in the east are more sand based for the the most part, and are much more condusive to horses being able to come off of the pace. For the most part the tracks in Cali are harder, and more speed oriented. Think about a horse like Taste of Paradise. Decent horse out west, but once he hits Belmont he's a completely different animal. It seems to me, and it's just my opinion, that when you are based, and train at a sand based track, it's harder to adjust to a harder surface, than vice versa.

Thank you.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

I said in the past year.. Pico and Lost in the Fog were very special horses, no doubt.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

Bob and John was a little piggy that loved the slop.

[Assttodixie]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Bob and John was a little piggy that loved the slop.

yes, and steppenwolfer was the big bad wolf that just...blew!

I think the horse ran like most expected him to....he has never shipped and won away from Cali and there was no reason to believe he would all of the sudden start a new trend in what was against the hardest group of horses he had ever faced.

Frankly, he was simply too slow on the sheets anyway, and the two fastest horses in the race ran 1-2, and maybe the third fastest horse on the dirt in the race ran third even....

How Lava Man took more money than Invasor was a joke IMO...just shows you the influence of the heart over the knowledge of the casual bettor on the big race days.....

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Assttodixie

yes, and steppenwolfer was the big bad wolf that just...blew!

Ha, I should have figured that one would draw you out.