tha lava man thread....

[ateamstupid]

Got it. Excuses for Lava Man are perfectly acceptable, but none for Bernardini.

Originally Posted by redransom

My take? California horses spend a lot of time shipping East yet Eastern horses rarely come West. Why is that? And no lame excuses like the tracks are faster here. Plenty of speedy types race on the Right Coast and Cali-based horses still beat them straight up. If anything you'd think that when Cali horses ship they'd find the "deeper" tracks a hurdle.

Because it's a completely different element. You might as well call California racing something other than "thoroughbred," because for years, Cali form has been as exclusive as Polytrack form is today. Some horses love it out there, and those who do can't run anywhere else (i.e. Lava Man), and some horses hate it out there.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Got it. Excuses for Lava Man are perfectly acceptable, but none for Bernardini.



Because it's a completely different element. You might as well call California racing something other than "thoroughbred," because for years, Cali form has been as exclusive as Polytrack form is today. Some horses love it out there, and those who do can't run anywhere else (i.e. Lava Man), and some horses hate it out there.

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

I didn't make any excuses for anyone. I thought Bernardini ran his eyeballs out and did a damn good job doing it. I wasn't a fan at all before the BC, but I am now. As for Lava Man, I don't think he has any excuses whatsoever. Pointing out he was supposedly training great at Keeneland and not at Churchill wasn't any kind of commentary about shipping either. There's no guarantee he'd have raced well at Keeneland at all. I was just told by someone I trust that he didn't look so hot at Churchill compared to how he looked at Keeneland.

And why is California racing something other than Thoroughbred? Personally I think that's a ridiculous statement. Form out here isn't exclusive whatsoever. All kinds of our horses ship out East and win. All kinds! And over the dirt and now polytrack, in places like Keeneland. Not so many come out here and win, however. Including a reigning Horse of the Year, may he rest in peace.

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think the amount of California horses who ship East and win is about the same as the amount who ship out there and win, and neither of those amounts are very high.

Besides Too Much Bling, I can't think of many California DIRT horses who shipped out here and consistently did well this past year.

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

Off the top of my head... Pu$$ycat Doll, Midnite Lute, Behaving Badly (second, but OH so close), Great Hunter, and the list goes on... don't even get me started on 2005!

Can't think of one horse who came here and won, however.

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by redransom

Wait, how do you figure I'm not getting your point? Of course there's a different kind of racing out here just as there's a different kind of racing in, say, Florida or Louisiana. What I'm not getting is why you're taking issue with the Easterners shipping West vs. the Westerners shipping East.

It's a documented fact that, at least for the last decade and perhaps longer, far more horses from California have shipped and won than vice versa. If the racing is as superior, as I think you're alluding to, then you'd think more horses would be coming out here to steal our million-dollar races. It just doesn't happen.

But back to Lava Man... he obviously changes the minute his toes step in the airplane because he's shipped all over So Cal. Why? I have no idea. I'm sure if I knew I'd be Doug O'Neill's new best friend!

Well, I'm not all over the past decade, but just in the last few years? The reason there have been far more West Coast shippers winning out here? Because nobody here ships out there! Why do you think that is? The money's just as good.. It's gotta be that it takes a special kind of horse to run on those speedways like they run on the dirt out here.

And you aren't getting my point, because my point is that shipping from NY to KY or KY to NY or NY to FL or FL to KY, etc. is much easier than shipping from NY to CA because there are two types of racing. NY, KY, FL (I would've said IL before all those breakdowns), etc. and CA.

If you think I'm wrong, then you come up with a better reason why East Coast owners and trainers largely refuse to go out West.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I said CONSISTENTLY did well, not won one slow race on Polyturf.

And you're missing my point. It's not a East Coast ships West vs. West Coast ships East thing. My point is that it's a completely different type of racing out West.

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

I said in the past year.. Pico and Lost in the Fog were very special horses, no doubt.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

Add Bob and John, Pico Central, Borrego, Lost in The Fog.

Bob and John was a little piggy that loved the slop.

[Danzig]

i give them props for trying, unlike some peeps...cough cough silver train cough.