Prominent horse owners vow to run 2-year-olds without race-day drugs

[Indian Charlie]

Yay, healthier horses!

I can't wait!

I also can't wait for Riot to stop being such an obvious shill.

Yay!!

Yay, another morally superior post from Riot!!

Yay!

Yay, better living through drugs!!

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Yay, healthier horses!

I can't wait!

I also can't wait for Riot to stop being such an obvious shill.

Yay!!

Yay, another morally superior post from Riot!!

Yay!

Yay, better living through drugs!!

Not treating horses for EIPH is like not treating asthma in humans. EIPH isn't a disease caused by racing. It's a disease of all horses in all sports. Ignoring a disease and not treating it doesn't make the disease go away. It doesn't make for "healthier" people. Or horses. It makes for more suffering and affected, increasing morbidity and mortality.

Any horse retired from the track because of excessive EIPH causing lung damage can go right to the breeding barn, there is zero to physically decrease their ability to breed, other than a race record.

Not rocket science. Just basic science. And the last thing we need is more science deniers in this world.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not treating horses for EIPH is like not treating asthma in humans. EIPH isn't a disease caused by racing. It's a disease of all horses in all sports. Ignoring a disease and not treating it doesn't make the disease go away. It doesn't make for "healthier" people. Or horses. It makes for more suffering and affected, increasing morbidity and mortality.

Any horse retired from the track because of excessive EIPH causing lung damage can go right to the breeding barn, there is zero to physically decrease their ability to breed, other than a race record.

Not rocket science. Just basic science. And the last thing we need is more science deniers in this world.

All those sick diseased horses around the world seem fine

[Riot]

Originally Posted by freddymo

All those sick diseased horses around the world seem fine

Only if you ignore the incidence of EIPH in American (allows lasix) and non-American racing jurisdictions. And the results in the progeny of American sires used as shuttle stallions.

Focusing on lasix as a major problem in horse racing is a sham, and an idiocy.

[OTM Al]

When I saw this all I could wonder is if they would all be wearing promise rings...

[Riot]

Originally Posted by OTM Al

When I saw this all I could wonder is if they would all be wearing promise rings...

I think that's a pretty good description

I'm sure they all feel wonderfully self-satisfied for their efforts at taking American racing back to a past that's not in the best interest of the health and welfare of the race horse, nor at current standards of veterinary medical care.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by freddymo

All those sick diseased horses around the world seem fine

Originally Posted by Riot

Only if you ignore the incidence of EIPH in American (allows lasix) and non-American racing jurisdictions. And the results in the progeny of American sires used as shuttle stallions.

Focusing on lasix as a major problem in horse racing is a sham, and an idiocy.

So, are you really saying that if you ignore bleeders vs non bleeders, than your entire argument finally holds merit?

How much do you get paid to post here and on other boards?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not treating horses for EIPH is like not treating asthma in humans. EIPH isn't a disease caused by racing. It's a disease of all horses in all sports. Ignoring a disease and not treating it doesn't make the disease go away. It doesn't make for "healthier" people. Or horses. It makes for more suffering and affected, increasing morbidity and mortality.

Any horse retired from the track because of excessive EIPH causing lung damage can go right to the breeding barn, there is zero to physically decrease their ability to breed, other than a race record.

Not rocket science. Just basic science. And the last thing we need is more science deniers in this world.

Just as all humans don't have asthma, all horses don't suffer from EIPH. There are also different levels of bleeding, but hey, just drug em all. I guess I'll start using my son's inhaler...just in case.

Freddy, I have tons of Percocet laying around and an unfilled prescription, should I fill it for you just in case you feel some pain?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Just as all humans don't have asthma, all horses don't suffer from EIPH. There are also different levels of bleeding, but hey, just drug em all. I guess I'll start using my son's inhaler...just in case.

Freddy, I have tons of Percocet laying around and an unfilled prescription, should I fill it for you just in case you feel some pain?

Are you in favor or against withholding a therapeutic medication proven to decrease the incidence and severity of EIPH in horses with evidence of EIPH? A yes or no will suffice.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Are you in favor or against withholding a therapeutic medication proven to decrease the incidence and severity of EIPH in horses with evidence of EIPH? A yes or no will suffice.

It depends on what you call evidence.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It depends on what you call evidence.

Diagnostic evidence of the clinical condition as determined by accepted standards of practice (definition) by doctors of veterinary medicine.

I'm not trying to trick you into any answer I'm just trying to see where you draw your line in the sand, and why.

Are you in favor or against withholding a therapeutic medication proven to decrease the incidence and severity of EIPH in horses with evidence of EIPH?

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Diagnostic evidence of the clinical condition as determined by accepted standards of practice (definition) by doctors of veterinary medicine.

I'm not trying to trick you into any answer I'm just trying to see where you draw your line in the sand, and why.

Are you in favor or against withholding a therapeutic medication proven to decrease the incidence and severity of EIPH in horses with evidence of EIPH?

Honestly, I don't know. If it were merely a therapeutic medication, I would be all for it. However, there are quite a few that believe it enhances performance. There are plenty of vets on both sides of that argument. Studies are slanted towards those paying for them. Some indicate performance enhancement, others don't.

So, until it can be proven it does not enhance performance, I'm against it. The reason I say that is that it forces those horses that don't need drugs to use them to be competitive if it is indeed a performance enhancer.

My personal belief is that it does make horses run faster, and not just because it reduces EIPH. I don't know the scientific reason, that isn't my field. But I have a lot of experience measuring thoroughbred performance and until proven otherwise, I'll stick with that.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Just as all humans don't have asthma, all horses don't suffer from EIPH. There are also different levels of bleeding, but hey, just drug em all. I guess I'll start using my son's inhaler...just in case.

Freddy, I have tons of Percocet laying around and an unfilled prescription, should I fill it for you just in case you feel some pain?

ABSOLUTELY