Mitt Romney sold a drugged horse

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

This whole arguement is ridiculous and your comments are insane.

No, they are not.

First, the involvement of the Romney's is what it factually is, no matter your characterization of my comments.

Secondly, yes, when you have a horse vetted in a different location, you use a local vet (if you cannot fly a vet you know there) for the initial rads and blood draws, and no, you may not know that vet. This isn't the race horse world where trainers know a variety of vets at the tracks they frequent, and some vets will travel north and south for summer/winter. That's why you get 2nd or even 3rd opinion purchasing a sport horse. As this buyer did.

All horses have problems. The suitability to work here was a big, direct lie by the sellers.

Yes, the vet said he screwed up the drug screening - or was it deliberate? Because then he said he gave another, third, drug that was found, but he did not note the third drug in the medical record. Then that leaves one more drug, a fourth. The trainer - Romney's agent and legal representative at the sale -is suspected of giving that drug.

The vet wasn't incompetent, as much as he was trying to sell a horse he knew was lame. The vet was complicit.

The buyer had to get another vet to get the previous x-rays and history on the horse.

A simple flexion test cannot diagnose ringbone - you need rads for low ringbone, as it's within the hoof, and yes, she had rads taken. The buyer was told that huge exotosis was always there, but that turned out to be a lie, when the second vet obtained the old x-rays for comparision, the old medical records, and went over the dressage scores the horse got in the past.

The presence of ringbone is an immediate killer to 100% of sales for horses intended to work. It was not mentioned by the seller or vet at the time of sale. Then the found presence was attempted to be "explained away".

Did anybody actually READ the expert testimony? All these details are in there. The horse was demonstrably lame for some time. Not just "problem on xray" or a "little deformity".

Riot as a professional in this area I think your anger should be at your collegue and not the seller because you are making assumptions about the seller from your own political views.

Has zero to do with my political views. Sorry.

As I have said, yes, I have great anger at incompetent and cheating veterinarians.

But I also have great anger for cheating trainers and owners that dope and sell lame horses.

But this horse, again, was lame with ringbone - treated repeatedly for ringbone - for 2 1/2 years before the Romney's sold him. Ann knew she couldn't ride her horse, and knew why. For 2 1/2 years and multiple steroid injections.

Then suddenly the horse, who cannot be shown by Ann in lower level dressage for 2 1/2 years - is for sale as a serviceably sound, capable upper level horse for $125,000?

Baloney There is zero scenario where the owners of this horse they knew was lame and not showable in dressage, do not know how the horse was "made sound" to pass the prepurchase.

Especially when the vet called the owner agent - and not the buyer client - to discuss those nasty positives that were "found".

The argument that the Romney's didn't know Ann's horse was lame and it's career was over for 2 1/2 years - before they doped it and sold it as sound and $125,000 - is beyond absurd.

And after that doping 4 years ago, the Romneys choose to be still with the same trainer. The trainer that doped a horse they were selling, and caused a lawsuit.

[wiphan]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, they are not.

First, the involvement of the Romney's is what it factually is, no matter your characterization of my comments.

Secondly, yes, when you have a horse vetted in a different location, you use a local vet (if you cannot fly a vet you know there) for the initial rads and blood draws, and no, you may not know that vet. This isn't the race horse world where trainers know a variety of vets at the tracks they frequent, and some vets will travel north and south for summer/winter. That's why you get 2nd or even 3rd opinion purchasing a sport horse. As this buyer did.

All horses have problems. The suitability to work here was a big, direct lie by the sellers.

Yes, the vet said he screwed up the drug screening - or was it deliberate? Because then he said he gave another, third, drug that was found, but he did not note the third drug in the medical record. Then that leaves one more drug, a fourth. The trainer - Romney's agent and legal representative at the sale -is suspected of giving that drug.

The vet wasn't incompetent, as much as he was trying to sell a horse he knew was lame. The vet was complicit.

The buyer had to get another vet to get the previous x-rays and history on the horse.

A simple flexion test cannot diagnose ringbone - you need rads for low ringbone, as it's within the hoof, and yes, she had rads taken. The buyer was told that huge exotosis was always there, but that turned out to be a lie, when the second vet obtained the old x-rays for comparision, the old medical records, and went over the dressage scores the horse got in the past.

The presence of ringbone is an immediate killer to 100% of sales for horses intended to work. It was not mentioned by the seller or vet at the time of sale. Then the found presence was attempted to be "explained away".

Did anybody actually READ the expert testimony? All these details are in there. The horse was demonstrably lame for some time. Not just "problem on xray" or a "little deformity".



Has zero to do with my political views. Sorry.

As I have said, yes, I have great anger at incompetent and cheating veterinarians.

But I also have great anger for cheating trainers and owners that dope and sell lame horses.

But this horse, again, was lame with ringbone - treated repeatedly for ringbone - for 2 1/2 years before the Romney's sold him. Ann knew she couldn't ride her horse, and knew why. For 2 1/2 years and multiple steroid injections.

Then suddenly the horse, who cannot be shown by Ann in lower level dressage for 2 1/2 years - is for sale as a serviceably sound, capable upper level horse for $125,000?

Baloney There is zero scenario where the owners of this horse they knew was lame and not showable in dressage, do not know how the horse was "made sound" to pass the prepurchase.

Especially when the vet called the owner agent - and not the buyer client - to discuss those nasty positives that were "found".

The argument that the Romney's didn't know Ann's horse was lame and it's career was over for 2 1/2 years - before they doped it and sold it as sound and $125,000 - is beyond absurd.

And after that doping 4 years ago, the Romneys choose to be still with the same trainer. The trainer that doped a horse they were selling, and caused a lawsuit.

SO why would a buyer spend $125k on a horse that hasn't shown in 2 1/2 years? Doesn't seem to add up at all. If you have $125k to spend on a horse you can spend money to find a reliable vet that you trust to do a pre-purchase exam.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by wiphan

SO why would a buyer spend $125k on a horse that hasn't shown in 2 1/2 years? Doesn't seem to add up at all.

Yeah, how about that ... when the buyer showed up to try the horse, was the buyer TOLD the horse couldn't be shown? Was the buyer TOLD the horse had ringbone, which eliminated it as a dressage horse?

Any buyer will walk away immediately from any horse with ringbone. Everyone knows that.

Nope. A horse, drugged up to pass for sound, was introduced as horse who was capable of doing upper level dressage. here you go, try the horse! And they accepted the check for $125,000.

I can't believe you are trying to defend these low life scum horse dealers, and trying to blame the victim of their fraud and deceit.

If you have $125k to spend on a horse you can spend money to find a reliable vet that you trust to do a pre-purchase exam.

Buyer did get a second opinion, after being defrauded by the first veterinarian - unexpected, I'm sure - and that's how this scam was exposed. Of course, the Romney's had no idea!

Okay, guys, your turn: Let's hear the plausible way this went down, consistent with the findings and dates in the expert witness statement, that shows the Romney's could not have know their lame horse was sold as sound. For $125,000. Explain how the Romney's are innocent and unknowing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by wiphan

SO why would a buyer spend $125k on a horse that hasn't shown in 2 1/2 years? Doesn't seem to add up at all. If you have $125k to spend on a horse you can spend money to find a reliable vet that you trust to do a pre-purchase exam.

wiphan, none of that matters. all that matters is that mitt romney is scum. you shouldn't let yourself be sidetracked by any of the minutiae regarding the case-it's irrelevant.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Danzig

wiphan, none of that matters. all that matters is that mitt romney is scum. you shouldn't let yourself be sidetracked by any of the minutiae regarding the case-it's irrelevant.

No, Danzig, all that matters is the minutiae and facts of the case Which some of you are clearly choosing to deliberately ignore.

Last chance: can any of you, going through the expert witness testimony about what records were obtained about what medical history, and when - make any remotely credible case that the Romney's didn't know a thing about their doped unsound horse that wasn't shown for 2 1/12 years suddenly being sold as a sound upper level horse?

Anybody?

Bueller?

[Rileyoriley]

Bueller says it must be Bush's fault.

[Rudeboyelvis]

^^Bueller says she's batsh1t insane.

[geeker2]

^^^^^

should be spending time on the HOL p4's

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis

^^Bueller says she's batsh1t insane.

^^ Said a man who thinks the President of the United States isn't a legal American citizen

Next time some horse trainer gets caught with a positive, I'll remember you guys saying positive drug tests simply do not matter if you are Mitt Romney.

Face it: the conservative robot who drove 12 hours with his scared, defecating dog in a crate on the roof of a station wagon (a dog who then ran away upon arrival and was "left there" in the wilds of Canada by the Romney's when their vacation was over) did nothing about his current employee trainer, who drugged Ann's lame horse with xylazine, detomidine, butorphenol, and ronifidine so that the no-longer-useful ringbone horse could be sound long enough to be dumped on an unsuspecting buyer for $125,000 - and bought the Romney's a lawsuit for fraud.

Well done, Mitt ! Your fans admire your treatment of animals and your willingness to screw a horse and purchaser for money! You deserve it, Mitt! Screw the lady who had to sue you to get her money back.

The lawsuit was filed in 2010, after a California woman purchased a horse (unfortunately) named "Super Hit" from Romney and Romney's Horse Training All Star Team (Please have matching Team Romney jackets with shiny silver star patches. Please have matching Team Romney jackets with shiny silver star patches.).

When Super Hit was examined by a vet to verify his pre-sale physical condition, the vet found that Super Hit was Super High on a positively Limbaughesque cocktail of painkillers.

The vet testified, "In my 38 years of practice, I have never come across a drug screen such as this where the horse has been administered so many different medications at the same time."

The jilted Super Hit buyer alleges that the painkillers were administered by Team Romney in an attempt to disguise the horse's bum foot, which made it impossible for the horse to perform feats necessary for dressage. Unleash the lawyers!

http://jezebel.com/5920642/that-time...ul-painkillers

By the way ... the veterinary discussion e-mail lists are not on the side of Mitt and Ann here. Gee. Wonder why?